Incentives to NOT queue as DPS

[YitharV2]

-snip-

To be fair, bad tanks make me very sad. I did expert roulette earlier and got a PLD that thought 1 Flash was enough to consolidate aggro. No, 1 Flash isn't enough. I don't remember the last time I actually needed to switch targets. And I was doing my AoE rotation, which requires me to do single target first to use Rockbreaker. >_>

But I do agree with the double standard sucking. It's just the way the game is sadly, because no official parsers. DPS can't be held accountable but tanks and healers can be.

For me personally, tanking in this game is boring as crap, plus you are at the mercy of your healer not being bad. And heal carrying baddies isn't my idea of fun. So I don't solo queue on tank/healer. Even with the mount and gil incentives, I probably wouldn't queue up. Maybe for the tomestones, but probably not.

[savageink]

Fair enough. I didn't remember posting that but I did.

Back on topic:

You have three options as SE if you want to fix que times.

1) Force people to play "Off-classes"
2) Make the reward for being an "Off-calss" tremendous enough to get people to invest their time into it
3) Rework content to make "Off-classes unneeded

Beyond that I have no clue what they could reasonably do.

Scaling content to player numbers already happens in limited ways in the game. And the characters themselves scale in varying ways depending on which content you do. Adding 2 more DPS slots to a dungeon instance wouldn't be that unreasonable. And Tanks, as mentioned previously (in this thread I think) get mount rewards for being tanks and I don't think that has drastically changed their numbers.

Edit: I don't think they should add them all the time. Just when queue times exceed a certain limit.

[NocturniaUzuki]

Hmm... how about this:

If you queue as the Adventurer in Need, you get a consumable item that increases your XP-gained for one dungeon. This item can be gained once every 60 minutes. For tank mains, this is just another nice bonus, but because it's only once per 60 minutes, if you're always queuing as a tank, you will only get the item once every 2-4 dungeons. Meanwhile, if you're a DPS main and you play tank for one dungeon, you get the bonus item, then you can go back to DPSing for the next dungeon. On top of that, since DPS queues are longer, the 60 minute limit on the item gain is oddly more beneficial to DPS. If you're forced to wait for 40 minutes in a queue then use your item in your dungeon to increase XP, you can then queue tank again right after and get another item. This should increase XP gain on their main class for DPS that queue as tank/healer.

However, I admit that it has plenty of flaws. The one that jumps out at me the most is that it still forces DPS to play something they don't want to just to get better XP. And I think a lot of people would rather just take slightly slower XP gains in exchange for actually playing what they enjoy.

[HyperSMB]

Scaling content to player numbers already happens in limited ways in the game. And the characters themselves scale in varying ways depending on which content you do. Adding 2 more DPS slots to a dungeon instance wouldn't be that unreasonable.

As a healer main, oh hell yes it would. I already consistently have to blow oGCD's saving only 2 DPS from death due to AoE...I don't have enough patience to deal with 4 running around getting themselves nuked.

You are asking healers to take on extra burden to cover the community obsession with DPS and not offering healers anything in return for the adjustment if DPS slots were added.

Doesn't seem fair now does it?

EDIT: That isn't even taking into account how tanks would have to possibly deal with 4 openers on 4 different targets and still somehow maintain aggro on a pull.

[Jatoi]

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Even people who aren't used to tanking and are fresh to it get some nasty stuff. I have an example when I did my first Sastasha run as GLD.

A mentor archer on purpose kept standing behind me when I said for her not to since she would keep getting cleaved. I faced the mobs away as a tank is supposed to and even stated I am new to tanking. Also, this archer decided to go out of her way and pull more towards me. Every time the archer would make unwarranted pulls, the healer let her die while we re-assured the other DPS ( a lancer ) wasn't doing anything wrong. The mentor in question was saying "I am trying to help the other DPS" for some fool reason. Funny enough, they stated that they were a PLD main and I told them I was a newbie tank.

There is also muscle memory to take into account. I am so used to WHM that now when I try to do something else, my brain and body go to look for my healing abilities when I am playing a different class. It takes time to get a pretty different playstyle into your system.

DPS aren't as visible as a tank or healer when in groups when it comes to mistakes, they can get away with those more than the other roles. If a tank or healer makes a big mistake, oh it really shows. But a DPS messing up are more likely slip by with it unless they die constantly. Maybe that is what deters people from playing a tank because of how so much of that focus is on you.

[savageink]

As a healer main, oh hell yes it would. I already consistently have to blow oGCD's saving only 2 DPS from death due to AoE...I don't have enough patience to deal with 4 running around getting themselves nuked.

You are asking healers to take on extra burden to cover the community obsession with DPS and not offering healers anything in return for the adjustment if DPS slots were added.

Doesn't seem fair now does it?

EDIT: That isn't even taking into account how tanks would have to possibly deal with 4 openers on 4 different targets and still somehow maintain aggro on a pull.

You think there is no way to adjust tank and healer output to compensate? It's all numbers. And it's not like they have never had to deal with 6 man group mechanics before.

[HyperSMB]

You think there is no way to adjust tank and healer output to compensate? It's all numbers. And it's not like they have never had to deal with 6 man group mechanics before.

You are STILL asking healers and tanks to do MORE work to make up for the communties obsession. You are dancing around the issue of how it is fair.

Also, if you buff my healing or give me way more tools to babysit the extras, now you warp balancing in 8 man content which then needs to be redone. it is a little more involved than just, tune some numbers and add more slots.

[savageink]

You are STILL asking healers and tanks to do MORE work to make up for the communties obsession. You are dancing around the issue of how it is fair.

Also, if you buff my healing or give me way more tools to babysit the extras, now you warp balancing in 8 man content which then needs to be redone. it is a little more involved than just, tune some numbers and add more slots.

And you are screeching like change is bad, and never happens in this game. But if you throw more stuff at tanks and healers it will magically produce more tanks and healers. It won't. If they had stuck with 6 man dungeons you wouldn't even know the difference.

[HyperSMB]

-snip-

Let me address each in point:

1) I never played with 6 man content, I assume that was 1.0? Since I have been around since mid 2.X so far as I know they have always been 4 mans.
2) No, I think in order to make more tanks and healers you would have to throw RIDICULOUS amounts of free stuff OR make them enticing enough to be game warping, which won't happen. I am 100% convinced the community has a DPS obession and it would take more effort than it is worth to break it. I could care less (anything added is just a bonus), I'm going to heal for my FC either way for instant times.
3) Change is fine, I LOVE what the did with SB in fact. New WHM and AST feel great.
4) You still have not adressed why I should have to do more work (And the tank) to make up for the community.

[savageink]

Let me address each in point:

1) I never played with 6 man content, I assume that was 1.0? Since I have been around since mid 2.X so far as I know they have always been 4 mans.
2) No, I think in order to make more tanks and healers you would have to throw RIDICULOUS amounts of free stuff OR make them enticing enough to be game warping, which won't happen. I am 100% convinced the community has a DPS obession and it would take more effort than it is worth to break it. I could care less (anything added is just a bonus), I'm going to heal for my FC either way for instant times.
3) Change is fine, I LOVE what the did with SB in fact. New WHM and AST feel great.
4) You still have not adressed why I should have to do more work (And the tank) to make up for the community.

6 man was used in FFXI. The other mmorpg. They probably still have the devs and the code lying around for inspiration.

DPS is always the most popular and they should have just planned for it. Or as that other dude earlier on said, make tanking more fun in some fashion. But really every game with the "holy trinity" is like this. Better planning is probably the real solution.

As for the last one, it's irrelevant. If it's balanced properly you wouldn't notice.