Tanks using ilv270 STR acessories

[aleph_null]

I agree that DPS is also the meta in TERA, but it has a lot more skill required even before getting into maximizing DPS.

Obviously in TERA, once you practice and memorize a boss' patterns perfectly then you have to optimize DPS to push yourself further, but before that point, you can push yourself by just sticking to pure tanking.

Well that's pretty much what it's like here, no? You can't tank savage bosses out of tank stance before you memorized the attack patterns perfectly and coordinated mitigations/heals for the whole fight. Just because it's optimal doesn't mean everyone and their grandmas can tank out of tank stance. If it's worth anything, nearly every single pug creator/midas savage clears I've been in had what I consider turtle tank as the "MT", and I'm sure the number of tanks who have done a12s with both tanks completely out of tank stance is ridiculously low. Yeah to be optimal you need to not use tank stance, but the majority of the playerbase aren't skilled enough to be pushing themselves at that point.

[YitharV2]

Well that's pretty much what it's like here, no? You can't tank savage bosses out of tank stance before you memorized the attack patterns perfectly and coordinated mitigations/heals for the whole fight. Just because it's optimal doesn't mean everyone and their grandmas can tank out of tank stance. If it's worth anything, nearly every single pug creator/midas savage clears I've been in had what I consider turtle tank as the "MT", and I'm sure the number of tanks who have done a12s with both tanks completely out of tank stance is ridiculously low. Yeah to be optimal you need to not use tank stance, but the majority of the playerbase aren't skilled enough to be pushing themselves at that point.

I don't entirely disagree but there's a lot to be said about fight design when you can map things out by the GCD. As far as I can tell in this game, mitigation is figuring out when the tankbusters occur and then planning out which cooldowns you're going to use. In TERA the damage was constant like in WoW, so someone could tell you what the attacks were and their tells, but you'd have to figure out the dance yourself. Bosses were still scripted but the attack pattern was far more random.

Also in TERA, this wasn't just at endgame hard mode dungeon level (which is what I'd compare to Savage). This was in every dungeon including leveling dungeons. I'm not so sure I'd say the same of FFXIV.

[Jonnycbad]

It's a chain of events that started with something completely unrelated. SE changed Weakness so that it no longer lowers your HP, but instead lowers your primary damage stat. Since VIT was a primary damage stat for tanks, presumably they decided to uncouple damage from VIT so that they could make that change without either having it affect tanks too much (damage and health penalty) or too little (half the damage penalty other classes got).

So once you have the new Weakness formula no longer affecting VIT and VIT no longer being a damage stat, the only way to stop Gordias from happening again is to role lock the accessories... And then they forgot to lock the older accessories.

[Jonnycbad]

So in other words if tank damage was calculated with VIT, then weakness would not affect their HP OR their damage, giving tanks a pretty good return, and paving ways for zombie builds with tanks as DPS(mostly PLD due to their high dps currently) that as long as they get raised, they have no effective penalty for dying.

[KorenA]

Lulz it's alotta salty tears in this thread, I'll continue to wear full slaying to spite the healers.

[Marxam]

I personally think this is a good thing. Was in a prog susano ex group and even the tank buster hits for about 25-30k with just my cds alone, not including barrier heals. I'm running with over 50k hp in defiance and even I'm starting to think that might be too much. Proper defensive cd management will always trump "better" gear and higher vit. Also I don't see a problem with this. Tanks can hold hate more easily and healers have to heal more to keep us from dying. Looks like SE thought this one through perfectly.

[aleph_null]

I haven't put much thoughts into non 2/2/4 comps since 3.x contents were mostly designed around having two tanks and/or two healers. Even susano and lakshmi seemed to follow that trend as well. Making pld a "solo tank" job would also make its dps lower than other tanks, thus punishing people when they queue into 8 man contents with a pld. Giving pld stances for super tanky mode and normal tank mode and dps mode would just overcomplicate things and make it confusing for new plds.

[Sarcatica]

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I know you can bring Armor Break but any spell is way easier to use. Your progress is slower for no benefit.

I was pointing out that you as a player should be diverse at picking the right components for different fights. Meta will keep changing and you as a player will do good to adapt to the situation and abuse the best components. The flan example doesn't mean that WAR now sucks so much that you have to switch to PLD or DRK, it's more of an educated choice in the given situation where you choose to do it for smoother progression. It is the same as PLD 3.x, was it that bad to bring on? No, but it was wiser for you to go DRK if you can. PLD was just overshadowed like how WAR is likely to be in 4.x.

Of course it'd be a really poor game design if the enemies are just flans, but this game is far from that. You exaggerate way too much.

Like depending on fights, DRG (the scapegoat of current melees) might actually be brought if lenient enough. ATM the general consensus is SAM and NIN at the top for the 2 EXs, it might change for Omega where fights can be directed differently that you would want to master more than just 1 job to maximize total damage as a group.

Going back to the i270 slayings, again as long as they don't do anything to this, we all can agree that SE wants us to use them. All the good tanks already do this now, primarily with good groups even more where you virtually keep swapping to use all the available CDs on both tanks to gain the most uptime while still tanking effectively in full i270 slaying accessories.

Edit: There should be a daily reminder that tanks should be scary enough to warrant people killing them first. No one has an immediate need to kill a tank that does no damage in the real situation.

[Sarcatica]

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I for one who have been tanking for long enough know how a tank will function, I also know the value of damage. If anyone is doing tank just for dps, they are silly and they have easier time to roll as dps. Tank that just function at its basic role is just boring, see some of the older games like Ragnarok Online. The game is so braindead as a tank, how easy was it to just stand in front? If people want pure tanking, this game has been dps oriented since 2.x and if you don't like it you should quit and move on because you probably won't get it in this game, it doesn't take a genius to tell what SE has been doing for 3 expac now.

[VargasVermillion]

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I agree, I have no qualms with the meta, no ones complaining about healers being able to contribute damage, it just seems like an unneeded controversy. However it would be better if SE acknowledged this meta more and didn't actively work against it, but if that's what they want then they should at least put more effort into designing it as such.