Tanks using ilv270 STR acessories

[Gumbercules]

I feel this would be "ok" within a static, like fights were OT only helps soak damage like in Noza's example. Haven't tanked that much yet but is it really that hard to hold hate as a tank now that you would require the extra damage to hold a boss as an mt? I am a bit undecided on this one, i did enjoy the str acc "take" on tanking, where you had to mix and match based on what the encounter could dish out, but again those were examples in which you had a static. If you are doing it cuz all the cool kids are doing it, without having an actual solid grasp on your tank jobs mitigation "capacities" and just stressing the healers though, it could be 1000 more dps and I would still say its not worth it. There is a difference between doing things to help with cutting edge content within their respective competitive communities, as groups, and being an a-hole that wants to play at being leet at the expense of your healers.

[Sarcatica]

We are currently at 0.6 AP~ with full str VI melds at i314. Comparing to the previously 0.8AP~ from 3.5 (need more maths, im lazy).

We are so gimped that I don't understand the logic on the sudden change of str being primary again. If they truly want to kill tanks' dps, they should do something about enmity first.

Else gtfo. Quit all you want, rant all you want because as long as SE doesn't do anything to the i270 slayings, they just want us to use it. Period.

[Sarcatica]

For me, that's exactly the reason. In the STR vs VIT debate, "respectable damage" is not achieved through skill and gameplay understanding, it's achieved through stuff. If I have full mastery over a damage rotation, I don't want any average joe doing more than me with a lower ilvl just because they have different gear. Basically, it's akin to the rant about Diadem weapon, where no skill could ever compensate for the gap in stats.

And I still don't understand how tanks could not feel like "they're helping out" when, without them, the team would be wiped in mere seconds...which is basically what happens when a STR tank is killed because he miscalculated how much max HP he needed.

Blame the players, not the meta. Skilled tanks are already past the "just being a hitting dummy for mobs/bosses". Adapting to the meta is always important if you want to improve as a player, not just as a tank per se.

[Reynhart]

Blame the players, not the meta. Skilled tanks are already past the "just being a hitting dummy for mobs/bosses". Adapting to the meta is always important if you want to improve as a player, not just as a tank per se.

Frankly, I'd blame the designers...because pure tanking rarely rise above "just being a hitting dummy for mob/bosses", so players find another direction where they can push their job. For me, it would be much more fun that a perfectly played theoretical tank should come close to 100% self-sustainability instead of competing in damage numbers.

[Noza]

What about MT ?

Didn't try yet, but on Susano Ex (with VIT) you can eat Stormsplitter with ease without tank stance (DRK shield + CD is enought), Stance=20% damage reduction, STR=20% hp loss, so i think you can mitigate Stormsplitter the same way as with VIT by stance dancing... the problem is not gears, you have enought HP to survive any attack, the real problem is greed/unexperience, as long as you know the fight, incoming damages and how to deal with them, you dont need the VIT imo, i mean why do you prefer loosing about 30% damage when you are confident on your skills and your party ?
The combo PLD/DRK can even protect each others with their skills which helps healers, its up to you but i prefer running STR on fights that i know, push the dps, skip mech... as long as they don't fix it STR will remain the way to go, sadly...

Again, my point isn't about STR tanking. I'm comfortable with doing it when needed, and I don't mind if there are people out there who refuse to. I understand both points of view.

agree with you, if you are not comfortable with it, don't, if its ok, just do it...

[ed3891]

Even with the change to STR, at Stormblood launch, I saw my attack power fall from 1337 to 1246 due to the fact I was wearing BiS VIT gear.

With STR once again being the sole source of attack power for tank jobs, we've come back to this perception that the failure of any given tank player to stay standing is solely due to whether or not they're wearing VIT or STR accessories. I get how people who don't necessarily main any of the tank jobs, or main them but don't particularly play them well, would draw that conclusion. The fact of the matter, though, is that aggro generation in this game scales with damage dealt. This has nothing to do with any of us wanting to hang out in DPS stance 24/7. This has everything to do with a valid concern that the ability to maintain hate against DPS jobs is going to become a major problem so long as tanks remain locked out of attack power gains on half their gear, while DPS jobs continue to scale upward. I completely understand the desire to ensure that tank damage potential does not approach dedicated DPS job damage potential, and it's for that reason that the STR/VIT hybrid calculation made sense and worked.

I feel that the sudden switch back to STR-only for tanks owes itself to the changes in how Weakness and Brink of Death are calculated. What needs to change is how Weakness and BoD are handled - these SHOULD be timed damage down debuffs at 25% and 50% respectively instead of reductions to main stats. This would let us go back to STR/VIT hybrid scaling, and make the use of VIT accessories viable again. Otherwise, holding out against 40k crits from SAM and the incredibly fast spin-up on RDM is going to demand tanks squeeze as much attack power as they can out of what's presently available, and that means holding onto those i270 pieces.

[NinefoldRakshasa]

I find it really funny how the only people with their heads far enough up their asses to defend this cancer are the PLDs.
Totally a coincidence!(sarcasm)

[YitharV2]

Blame the players, not the meta. Skilled tanks are already past the "just being a hitting dummy for mobs/bosses". Adapting to the meta is always important if you want to improve as a player, not just as a tank per se.

I agree 100% with Reynhart. Despite its numerous problems, in my opinion, TERA did tanking right. In TERA, a perfect tank would be 100% self-sustainable because they wouldn't take any damage.

FFXIV has designed tanks to be braindead dummies for bosses. So yeah I blame the designers.

[Sarcatica]

I agree 100% with Reynhart. Despite its numerous problems, in my opinion, TERA did tanking right. In TERA, a perfect tank would be 100% self-sustainable because they wouldn't take any damage.

FFXIV has designed tanks to be braindead dummies for bosses. So yeah I blame the designers.

TERA required that, else you are dead even if you are a tank. This is another game you are talking about, if FFXIV does this as well, you will be seeing more DPS slots in a raid rather than taking more healers or tanks in the end. It's all the same simple question; Do you need the extra survivability? If no, go do your extra DPS. It is that simple. Even TERA's tanks can do obscene amount of damage while tanking perfectly, in essence whatever you can get away with, you generally abuse it.

[YitharV2]

TERA required that, else you are dead even if you are a tank. This is another game you are talking about, if FFXIV does this as well, you will be seeing more DPS slots in a raid rather than taking more healers or tanks in the end. It's all the same simple question; Do you need the extra survivability? If no, go do your extra DPS. It is that simple. Even TERA's tanks can do obscene amount of damage while tanking perfectly, in essence whatever you can get away with, you generally abuse it.

It's definitely true we'd have less tanks. But having 3 tanks in a 24-man raid leads to other problems, suck as tanks trying to wave their e-peen and keep provoking rather than actually doing their job.

I agree that DPS is also the meta in TERA, but it has a lot more skill required even before getting into maximizing DPS. My point wasn't that DPS isn't the meta in TERA. My point was simply that I blame the designers because there's no direction where you can push your job in this game if you just stick to pure tanking. Obviously in TERA, once you practice and memorize a boss' patterns perfectly then you have to optimize DPS to push yourself further, but before that point, you can push yourself by just sticking to pure tanking.