DPS why don't you know your rotations?

[FaileExperiment]

I disagree with the bold part wholeheartedly. There are only two DPS in every group. If it's taking forever to kill stuff, then you know one of the DPS is doing it wrong.

How long is "forever", and at what point is it longer than "fast enough"? If said DPS even realizes it, what's to stop them from simply thinking the other DPS sucks instead of themselves? The game gives you very little objective feedback on how well you are doing. Even knowing your own exact DPS isn't so useful if you don't also know how much DPS you should be doing relative to your level/ilevel for your specific job.

For a casual player, succeeding in clearing the dungeon means it's all good. I'm hard-pressed to see a problem with that, from the pov of most players.

[Enjuden]

Until Stone, Sky, Sea is required to be cleared in order to run 'high level content', then that is what you'll see. Get used to it because it didn't come in Heavensward, and it won't be coming in Stormblood either.

Edit: Also it's the second week of Stormblood being out. Chill?

[Lium]

How long is "forever", and at what point is it longer than "fast enough"? If said DPS even realizes it, what's to stop them from simply thinking the other DPS sucks instead of themselves? The game gives you very little objective feedback on how well you are doing. Even knowing your own exact DPS isn't so useful if you don't also know how much DPS you should be doing relative to your level/ilevel for your specific job.

For a casual player, succeeding in clearing the dungeon means it's all good. I'm hard-pressed to see a problem with that, from the pov of most players.

I didn't mean to hijack this thread, but fast enough is a gut feeling. For example, I ran a leveling dungeon over the weekend and the tank kept saying how glad he was he had gotten a good group. We all knew the fights, the boss mechanics, and were moving through trash at a pretty good clip. You could tell the group was solid.

[FaileExperiment]

I didn't mean to hijack this thread, but fast enough is a gut feeling. For example, I ran a leveling dungeon over the weekend and the tank kept saying how glad he was he had gotten a good group. We all knew the fights, the boss mechanics, and were moving through trash at a pretty good clip. You could tell the group was solid.

That's exactly my point. It's a gut feeling for everyone, and everyone has a different gut. You can't really quantify it, so using at as a measure of anything is not very helpful to those who actually need that help. Like I said, some people may feel that a dungeon where you win, regardless of time or wipes or what have you, was a great run. Others feel that if you weren't at least 95% efficient, you wasted their time. The point is the game needs to provide solid indicators of performance, feedback to the player that they can actually use to say hey yeah, I'm doing as good as SE expects that I should in that dungeon, or no, I need to work on my DPS and here's how.

[Lium]

The point is the game needs to provide solid indicators of performance, feedback to the player that they can actually use to say hey yeah, I'm doing as good as SE expects that I should in that dungeon, or no, I need to work on my DPS and here's how.

I get what you're saying, I just fundamentally disagree. You know if you're in a good group or not just by how fast mobs are dying and how smooth boss fights go. You don't need a meter to see that. Gamers have been gaming without them for years. Ever since WoW it became a thing.

There's nothing inherently wrong with them, but it's the players that misuse them; and you know darn well they won't just be used to see how your own personal performance is. They will be used to set standards - often way over the top standards - even in lowbie dungeons.

There is a timer for every dungeon, anyway. If it's getting low you know the group is failing badly.