Tanks are fine (show your support so they don't change them)

[Ferrasper]

A ranged tank will never exist. Too unbalanced.

Hence why I will never play a tank.

[KisaiTenshi]

I rarely badger them when I see Healers play pure healing only. I use it as an excuse to push a more aggressive play style and see if they keep up. If they pipe up I usually respond with a rant about party synergy.

That is the correct way to go about it. If you pull one group and the healer is barely doing anything, go for two. You can keep going until the healer has no time to DPS at all. Keeping in mind that the healer can typically handle two pulls easily, but you are completely on your own for crowd control if you pull too much. A healer can not heal a squishy tank that pulls everything to the boss room.

That said, each healer is different. WHM can easily pull off Holy, Assize and Aero III within 5 seconds on any pull and then not do any additional DPS, (at that point the damage should stop for 5 seconds) but that still requires the tank to gather the trash together, and if the DPS are firing on the mobs as you pull them, that doesn't happen. The other side of this is I should not need to use benediction on a tank during a pull. If I need to use it, it's either because you the tank are too squishy, or I miss-timed/missed healing the tank (which happens when you accidentally click the floor before casting.) When I cast Holy I always move out of the way because the mob AOE's may still be there, but I can't see them once the holy animation starts.

With AST, Gravity isn't Holy. That effect is on Celestial Opposition, and does no damage. Thus it's rarely going to be used except to interrupt a mob's casting. Earthly Star/Stellar Detonation has the effect similar to Assize. An AST can't do the same AOE damage a WHM can, thus Assize or Earthly Star/Stellar Detonation are the only DPS attacks you should always see being used because they also recover HP. As a Healer I try to toss the DoT's out if there is time, but that time only exists on a small pull. Scholar, has no AOE DPS other than Shadow Flare, rather the way Scholar works is they have to single target bio, miasma and then use Bane to spread it to the enemies nearby. That again only works if the Tank has pulled the mobs close together.

Hence the DPS players need to wait for the tank to collect the trash, and the tank also needs to wait for all the trash to die before running off to the next pull. Otherwise you may start the next pull with the healer having already used their MP cooldowns, and having only half their MP.

[Molic]

I don't see how enimty is an issue in any content, in the new extreme fights I stay in dps stance 90% of the time.

With the new shrik ability if you work with you OT you can make all other party members enimty non existanst.

[Lilseph]

OP in a nutshell.

[mircanda]

every dps has an agro management skill, perhaps they should start using it, ive noticed ill drop from 2 (half way to 1) on the agro list to 3 (1/4 filled) and its on a short cooldown

[Ghastly]

Thank you for the support and the likes. If those of us that liked the changes show it they'll keep it and let fell cleave/decimate main tanks in "easy" dungeons adapt to it (if they can/want).

[RizenSaga]

These are all opinions. Saying tanks have no problems, or tanks only should be in defense stance especially from a non tank is assanine.

[Yahallo]

I don't see how enimty is an issue in any content, in the new extreme fights I stay in dps stance 90% of the time.

With the new shrik ability if you work with you OT you can make all other party members enimty non existanst.

In Extreme fights, it is fine due to it being single target. Right now, we don't have issue with single target enmity, especially with shirk around.

It is AoE enmity that is the issue, especially when DPS split dps or don't use their enmity reducers. It is an issue that is currently only rearing its head, but will get worse and worse as ilvl increases as the damage gap increases further due to tanks only gaining HP and no damage from their accessories. People are being short sighted in thinking that because it it is manageable now it will be fine later, but this is an issue that is a problem in the long term.

[RizenSaga]

Saying a tank shouldn't dps so a healer can is the stupidest thing I've ever heard. A healer heals, tanks tank. Any positive dps gain is a positive.

At level 60; Being out of tank mode as warrior nets +25% dps plus many great dps tools as a tank. In fact my tests were showing faster clears with a warrior in dps stance as close to 100% of the time and a healer only healing. Warriors specifically could do as much damage as dps making healers damage meaningless in comparison.

I have zero tests from 70 cap but I'm assuming people are referring to trash dungeons anyways (everything but raids/extreme primals) where non of this matters anyways.

The truth is non of that even matters if I enjoy the game. When you ruin how I like to tank that makes me enjoy the game less. So please non-tanks quit telling me everythings okay and I should just fit some cookie cutter ideal, especially when the content doesn't matter and I should be allowed to do whatever I want as long as I hold hate.

[Vhailor]

Tanks aren't "fine" any more than healers are "fine".

Whether a job is "fine" depends on three core factors: (1) can it accomplish its intended role; (2) is it reasonably balanced when compared to its peers; (3) is it fun to play. Even as a non-tank myself, I can tell from this thread that (3) is deeply in question, with (1) being a potential issue down the road unless SE adjusts the obvious tank enmity vs. damage-dealer DPS imbalance. That's a problem. I personally find (3) to be an issue for healers, too.

Don't get me wrong, I don't mind sticking to the trinity - but SE needs to make jobs fun to play within that more rigid role if they're going to pursue that path. I know I don't find spamming Cure II on a tank to be entertaining as a healer, and I doubt that tanks find firing off the same enmity combo for most of a fight to be especially fulfilling either. A good portion of the toolsets that healers and tanks have vanishes when the game design heavily pushes us to focus only on our primary role. We're playing with only one arm, so to speak.

All this to say, mindlessly shouting "tanks should tank" does not a solution make. It isn't constructive, and it's rooted in bias rather than logic or empathy. The sooner this perspective goes the way of the dodo, the sooner we can collectively provide clearer feedback for SE on exactly what's wrong with tanks (and healers).