WAR is Trash Tier Now

[Baci]

Why would SE do that? Cause they did so in the past? Nope. Cause SE learns from their mistakes? Nope.

[Tila]

PLD and DRK do bring a lot to the table, but it's still so obvious when you'd want to bring a WAR. If your comp contains RDM, you want a SMN and BRD to buff their magic, and a DRG to buff their melee (and BRD). This leaves nobody to put up slashing, except for the WAR. If you opt for double melee (NIN/SAM) you take DRK instead.

Something WAR does really well, and still continues to do will in 4.0, is pull. Having WAR MT at the start of a fight using unchained is almost always a DPS gain for the tank roles and eliminates any threat issues.

Finally. The real endgame isnt even out yet. Anyone who thinks they're able to determine the raid viability of any of the jobs using these EX primals as a baseline is an idiot. These EX primals are a joke.

The 2 slashing DPS bring the debuff as part of their baseline rotation (RDM is all magic damage, even their melee attacks). Which means the ONLY reason you would bring a WAR over a PLD/DRK would be so the PLD or DRK could have that slashing buff. They offer nothing other than a debuff that the classes that would benefit from it also bring.

So I'm not sure what your point is here.

[Felorr]

The 2 slashing DPS bring the debuff as part of their baseline rotation (RDM is all magic damage, even their melee attacks). Which means the ONLY reason you would bring a WAR over a PLD/DRK would be so the PLD or DRK could have that slashing buff. They offer nothing other than a debuff that the classes that would benefit from it also bring.

So I'm not sure what your point is here.

I guess I was misinformed because I've been reading where some RDM attacks are considered piercing.

[aleph_null]

War pull wouldn't be as good as before unless you have a nin (in which case you can do the tomahawk > equilibrium > deliverance pull followed with eye combo and 2 bb combos), since unchained shares cd with inner release, making the dps "cost" of unchained pull rather high.

[Tila]

I guess I was misinformed because I've been reading where some RDM attacks are considered piercing.

Their unenchanted attacks melee skills are piercing.

[CaptnYesterday]

Trash tier implies the job can't hold hate, can't do damage, and essentially can't function in its intended role, which is simply not true...

Ok, so that's how you define "Trash Tier". The community will define it differently. TLDR: It's not impossible, but that alone does not rescue WAR from being trash.

Lack of sustain requires more Storm's Path and Inner Beast and less enmity and DPS. Keeping aggro itself is harder with Warrior (depending on the pull you waste GCDs putting you behind in DPS and/or sustain based mitigation). No 360 AOE enmity generator forces directional reliance on overpower, interrupting combos and requiring more movement to capture mobs in the cone. Even when it works out and the above are managed (and overpower is not needed), you still take more damage than DRK/PLD. Damage requires more heals that could be better used on the group and, in the end, my healers prefer me to play my PLD.

[CaptnYesterday]

For MT, it's not just about holding aggro or mitigating/sustaining. It's about doing both. That alone looks to make WAR a trash tier to other players when they can push harder by having 2 PLDs or a PLD/DRK. These failings and fighting against them take away satisfaction of WAR class and make it feel janky in rotation execution.

I reserved judgement til 70+ but after some hard realizations, WAR is just not smooth or fun to play. I'll finish getting the Verity gear, but the weapon I buy? Pretty sure it'll be a sword. Hope I'm wrong.

[P4X0R10N]

Can we get a sticky or compilation of war grievances? At least let us know you're, ie SE, is looking into it.

[Lewtskie]

If we could have Bloodbath back, and have it be the mirror to Inner Release instead of Unchained, so in Defiance we can maintain the sustainability. If Overpower could have a wider spread and maybe not require a target to use, and if OP and maybe even Tomahawk could generate a small amount of Beast Gauge, how much better WAR would flow.

The good is there, the Beast Gauge is a greater evolution of the stacks, we just need be given some nurturing here.

[Leigaon]

• Stance Dancing: Beast should not be reduced when you switch

What would you change in both the stances besides the reduction? Would you add anything to Deliverance or Defiance to balance out why they made the large penalty?

• Infuriate: Usable outside of combat...

I'll admit, I do tap that button outside of combat so I could see that being in there, but what would you adjust to outside of that? Would you increase the timer? decrease it? increase the amount?

• Shake It Off: Useless since zerk change, needs to remove stun and bloodbath’s ability put onto it as well

I'm far from a veteran tank, do you find yourself as a tank in any other situation where you need to use a self Esuna? Do you think that an Esuna + Bloodbath syncs well? Maybe it needs to be re-done entirely.

• Butcher’s Block: Needs to give 20 beast gauge instead of 10

Just this? You don't think additional beast gauge from other moves would be helpful? Just a chunk at the end? Or do you think spreading it out to other moves in smaller portions? Or you just want the giant 20 at the end of BB?

• Onslaught: DMG loss either needs to cost no beast gauge

So you're not big on the pro side of it, do you think that if additional beast gauge was given like in your previous point, that would help? Remember if you get the additional gauge buff, would you notice that 10 for this move as harshly as you do now?

I do not understand the Berserk one from the wording but maybe that's my fault.

• Fell Cleave: Needs to have a buff as PLD and DRK average potency is around 70 higher so cleave needs to put up to around 600-700 potency
• STR/VIT: 270 STR accessories > 310 as STR bonus is better than VIT

These two I put together for a question. Remember, I'm here for information because I'm new. So Dark Knight & Paladin have a higher overall potency? I am learning more about these potency stats. So I'll need to go back to educate myself because I see a few factors in the main weapons but nothing huge, along with the other jobs major heavy hitters but nothing outstanding. But wouldn't some of the changes above make the 700 potency a bit too high? Or wouldn't that allow it to be lowered?

Just curious on these thought processes here, just remember they did some things for a reason so stay within those boundaries where it is acceptable. I personally wouldn't mind IR to be away from Unchained and have its own Defiance boost when used. I'd like to see my eyes glow red a bit more! Then there's always the need to adjust the other jobs if you believe it will hinder them at all to make something balanced.

If we could have Bloodbath back, and have it be the mirror to Inner Release instead of Unchained...

I can understand this, so you're asking for the ability to sustain ourselves back a bit more in return for the lack of dmg -% we don't get from our stance? IR having a blood bath boost to Defiance mode and not use up Unchained? I'd like to see that, if anything the bloodbath + iron will combo would be nice to have for Defiance.

I wish all you warriors luck with proposing these issues to SE, and be careful!