WAR is Trash Tier Now

[MagiusNecros]

Been thinking. WAR should build rage under effects of Vengeance and other skills. Other tanks have ways to passively build their gauges. WAR is only through Infuriate and damage.

Thoughts?

[Harz]

First of all, if you're just going to parrot Xenos' video, you may as well have just linked it.

• Stance Dancing: Beast should not be reduced when you switch

Swapping stances needs to have some kind of penalty, but halving the gauge is too severe, a 20 gauge cost would probably be more sensible.

• Infuriate: Usable outside of combat instead of a jank tomahawk>infuriate> Unchained. If you do not register on threat list but are in combat the skill doesn’t work

Do you seriously want to stand around for two and a half minutes before every pull waiting for a WAR to have 100 gauge? Because that's what will happen.

• Shake It Off: Useless since zerk change, needs to remove stun and bloodbath’s ability put onto it as well

Shake It Off should be Cross Role and we should go back to Rampart/Shadowskin/Foresight built in to each tank, with Foresight having its effect changed to mirror the other two.

• Butcher’s Block: Needs to give 20 beast gauge instead of 10

If you do this there's no reason to use Storm's Path whatsoever by sheer virtue of Shirk existing.

• Onslaught: DMG loss either needs to cost no beast gauge

Unless Onslaught's potency changes, I actually think it should be tweaked to generate gauge.

• Inner Release: Needs to be taken off a shared cooldown with Unchained and have its cooldown reduced to 60 seconds.
• Berserk: WAR is currently buffed less of the time than the two other tanks
• Fell Cleave: Needs to have a buff as PLD and DRK average potency is around 70 higher so cleave needs to put up to around 600-700 potency

This is disingenuous. WAR is buffed 100% of the time by Storm's Eye, the problem at the moment is that this only makes up for their lower potencies. Fell Cleave is fine, it will still do far and away more damage than Holy Spirit because Holy Spirit is a base 430 boosted to 516, while Fell Cleave is 500 base before it gets boosted by Storm's Eye, Berserk and Deliverance.

Leave Fell Cleave alone, buff WAR's weaponskill potencies instead, with the changes to PLD and DRK there's no reason for them to have lower potencies to compensate for their burst damage anymore. Then we can see if they need to change Inner Release.

[Deadeye]

Be it 20 gage or no gage please reduce or remove the stance dancing penalty.

That would straight up fix warrior. The only issue I have with the job now. Other smaller things, but we don't know an exact rotation so, might as well go for this as it defiantly removes a lot of the fun from Warrior.

The FLOW was part of what made Warrior fun.
This halving Beast Gage removes the flow

[CaptnYesterday]

Just hit 70 and realized that the level 70 ability only works in DPS stance. Was going to try and make MT work based around this ability and inner beast to take back some of my sustain. Would not have been a perfect solution, but I'm not a not a meta player so I thought I could make it work. What a disappointment. Not a single tank ability gained in this expansion. Only DPS. Enmity is a problem and healing is too and I don't see it getting any better given our current kit.

I'll play WAR until I've gotten my Verity gear, but that weapon will be bought for my trusty paladin from Heavensward.

[ed3891]

I don't agree with the notion that stance swaps on any of the tanks should carry a penalty. Prior to 4.0 being released, there was a lot of vocalization about the idea that, like WAR, PLD/DRK should have their stances made oGCD. Now that 4.0 is out, for whatever reason, there seem to be more voices declaring that a stance swap needs to come with a penalty. I don't see how that's good design, and I certainly don't see how that meets the dev team's stated aim of lowering the skill ceiling and making the overall player experiences more rewarding.

Regardless of what tank job you're on and regardless of your skill as a player, the fact of the matter is that you're still beholden to the actions of the people you're paired with in any given piece of content. Needing to jump back to your defensive stance because a DPS stood in the fire and the healer has to long-cast a raise for whatever reason, or switching to your offensive stance because the damage output from the rest of your party is lower than average and you want to help speed up the fight are options that should be available without punishment in the form of a resource loss.

As it stands right now it hardly feels like there's any kind of reward for playing WAR well. There are too many artificial limitations imposed on it compared to 2.x and 3.x, and if the developer's solution to the inequity between the tanks is to continuously cycle between making one of the three stand head and shoulders above the other two, they are not going to retain players interested in maining a tank role for very long.

[Venjenz]

If Heavy Swing generated 10 Beast gauge, the stance switch penalty would be almost negligible. because 10 seconds after switch, the loss would be replaced doing any 5 combo attacks in the right order. As it stands now, the minimum time to regain the lost 50 is 17.5 sec. If they fixed it to where either HS generates beast, or the cost is reduced so 10 sec of combo buttons would replace the loss (30 beast by my calcs), then it would be fine.

I'll agree that the cost is excessive, but there should be a cost for stance switching. The bad design was that it never had a cost to begin with. The worse design compounded on the bad is that they introduced a cost, but didn't really make either stance so much more compelling that they can justify adding the cost. If Deliverance added 10% more dmg or Defiance added 10% overall (magic and physical) dmg reduction IN ADDITION TO what they both currently do, then a cost being added makes sense.

It's definitely something to tweak, but again, stance switching, being as powerful as it can be, should have some cost associated with it to pay for the power it returns. IMHO, YMMV.

[bounddreamer]

Trash tier implies the job can't hold hate, can't do damage, and essentially can't function in its intended role, which is simply not true.

It's not a god-tier job but calling it trash tier is such typical forum hysteria.

[Venjenz]

Trash tier implies the job can't hold hate, can't do damage, and essentially can't function in its intended role, which is simply not true.

It's not a god-tier job but calling it trash tier is such typical forum hysteria.

This.

All that changed is WAR are no longer #1 OP tank. PLD are now. But WAR are still perfectly viable for tanking. There is no way there is any content in SB that the devs intentionally designed such that only PLD can possibly tank the encounter successfully. No way.

And they will get tweaked an adjusted in some upcoming patch, so I agree this is just a bunch of forum hysteria.

[CaptnYesterday]

Trash tier implies the job can't hold hate, can't do damage, and essentially can't function in its intended role, which is simply not true...

Ok, so that's how you define "Trash Tier". The community will define it differently. TLDR: It's not impossible, but that alone does not rescue WAR from being trash.

Lack of sustain requires more Storm's Path and Inner Beast and less enmity and DPS. Keeping aggro itself is harder with Warrior (depending on the pull you waste GCDs putting you behind in DPS and/or sustain based mitigation). No 360 AOE enmity generator forces directional reliance on overpower, interrupting combos and requiring more movement to capture mobs in the cone. Even when it works out and the above are managed (and overpower is not needed), you still take more damage than DRK/PLD. Damage requires more heals that could be better used on the group and, in the end, my healers prefer me to play my PLD.