So if PLD is the defensive what does that make WAR and DRK?

[SerahFarron]

PLD can get pretty close to WAR and DRK DPS wise. WAR is no longer the DPS tank and DRK is no longer somewhere in the middle. Your answer to getting people to play PLD again was to buff them to high hell which has been your specialty since the XI days SE. Have we not learned anything since then?

[SerahFarron]

Sorry I need to make some noise because I really hate the changes to DRK and WAR. If nothing changes come Omega Savage then I'd rather play a fun job where I'm not being punished for stance swapping because I haven't done the fucking duty over and over yet. Also no other job gets penalized like that. You made DRGs positionals not as punishing by buffing the base damage. How is it fair that we're the only ones that get punished like this?

[MomoOG]

The concept of having a defensive tank and an offensive tank is bad design that will always lead to balance issues. They need to be relatively equal in both departments.

[SerahFarron]

The concept of having a defensive tank and an offensive tank is bad design that will always lead to balance issues. They need to be relatively equal in both departments.

The concept of a defensive tank.was described by Yoshida himself. It's his responsibility to make the other tanks different from one another. If you make all of them the same then expect less people to play as a tank and have longer que times.

[Furious]

The concept of a defensive tank.was described by Yoshida himself. It's his responsibility to make the other tanks different from one another. If you make all of them the same then expect less people to play as a tank and have longer que times.

If all are the same then all are viable and nobody is resigned to not tank based on their class's inequality with the other class. That is the pipedream, not a failure.

What they wanted to do and what they actually did are not necessarily the same thing, but the goal was a good one.

[Lambdafish]

The concept of a defensive tank.was described by Yoshida himself. It's his responsibility to make the other tanks different from one another. If you make all of them the same then expect less people to play as a tank and have longer que times.

Yoshida wants to make WHM a pure healer too, a concept which simply means "healer that lacks utility" in this game, don't take his word as gospel.

[Pyrali]

The concept of having a defensive tank and an offensive tank is bad design that will always lead to balance issues. They need to be relatively equal in both departments.

No, it's not bad design and it's not unbalanced. It's diverse and it caters to different playstyles. You can't measure Tanks by DPS alone. I played WAR in Heavensward because I liked that Offensive, HP draining playstyle. My friend, who was a very nervous, Aggro and Defense oriented Tank would never touch WAR--but had a lot of fun playing Paladin.

If they want more people playing Tanks, they need to diversify them and make room for people who like different types of play to find something that works for them.

Every class needs strengths and weaknesses. Gives you more incentive to level all of them. If every class is just the same at everything, then what's the point?

[MomoOG]

No, it's not bad design and it's not unbalanced. It's diverse and it caters to different playstyles. You can't measure Tanks by DPS alone. I played WAR in Heavensward because I liked that Offensive, HP draining playstyle. My friend, who was a very nervous, Aggro and Defense oriented Tank would never touch WAR--but had a lot of fun playing Paladin.

If they want more people playing Tanks, they need to diversify them and make room for people who like different types of play to find something that works for them.

Every class needs strengths and weaknesses. Gives you more incentive to level all of them. If every class is just the same at everything, then what's the point?

The point is to have different flavors. That flavor can be achieved through different mechanics and rotations. Not through something as fundamental for balance like overall mitigation or damage. The optimal goal for dps classes is also to achieve similar dps but through different flavors (which includes indirect dps by buffing other party members). One doesn't say what is the point of different dps classes because they all do the same dps.

Now if you need me to break down why having similar mitigation and dps is so fundamental for tank balance I could do so for you.

[Pyrali]

The point is to have different flavors. That flavor can be achieved through different mechanics and rotations. Not through something as fundamental for balance like overall mitigation or damage. The optimal goal for dps classes is also to achieve similar dps but through different flavors (which includes indirect dps by buffing other party members). One doesn't say what is the point of different dps classes because they all do the same dps.

Now if you need me to break down why having similar mitigation and dps is so fundamental for tank balance I could do so for you.

Really? Because I think having DPS classes with more support viability in exchange for less damage is a fair trade. I can help my party more, but my own damage is a little lower. It's a trade-off. I don't need to be good at everything all the time. If I want to be maximum offense, I'll play MNK. If I want to have more utility in a Raid, I'll bring my MCH instead.

I'm against Homogenizing roles.

Also, you can drop the condescending tone, chief. It doesn't endear you to anyone.

[Gunnie]

Really? Because I think having DPS classes with more support viability in exchange for less damage is a fair trade. I can help my party more, but my own damage is a little lower. It's a trade-off. I don't need to be good at everything all the time. If I want to be maximum offense, I'll play MNK. If I want to have more utility in a Raid, I'll bring my MCH instead.

Then they should lower PLD DPS and give them a more supportive role not just defensively, but also give them DPS buffs for their group. Then their personal DPS is lower, but they contribute more towards the group. If it's just defensively you'll get HW all over again. The highest DPS tank gets invited, seeing they can all survive the tankbusters, and PLD will be left out.

Seeing the above will never happen, for the simple reason a PLD is more a bastion then anything else, having simular DPS as the other tanks is the easiest way to get PLD in the running again. Yes, I said simular, not ahead.