SAM out classing all other DPS

[Atmora]

Minus the people moving to hit positionals, I suppose, unless you've got everybody set on the same back corner, which then still brings up the problem of needing to move halfway through the boss in order to regain access to the rear, which depending on the state of your GCD makes it no different than just reacting to the boss turning to begin with. Anyways, my initial post wasn't meant to be so caught up on the positionals issue, or any specific fight for that matter, but was a more general overarching take on the impact fight mechanics can make on the viability of MNK vs. SAM.

A good monk can hit 90% of their positionals at least in any fight was my point.

[Svabodnik]

A good monk can hit 90% of their positionals at least in any fight was my point.

And I'd wholeheartedly agree with that, and for most fights I'd wager the number is even higher than that. The reason for why I brought it up is that a MNK that is applied to practically every single weaponskill missed, for up to 30% of that WS's potency a pop, whereas SAMs in a similar situation may luck out and not need to use Gekko or Kasha for 2-5 GCDs. I don't mean to come off like I'm splitting hairs here, but depending on the fight mechanics, especially when compounded with the other three points I've mentioned (party composition, presence or lack of heavy raidwide damage, fight downtime) I'd say it helps SAM be quite a bit more versatile in its role. Not that I'm holding it against SAM, mind you.

[Darian]

Lol. How are you not hitting positional on O2 savage? Just beat it on SAM with no problems getting into position when needed. It sounds like your waiting way too long to move. Also don't forget Sam DOES have positional too and kenki lost is a lot of dps lost for SAM. SAM is dealing with the same stuff every other melee is. No one is special here.

[Svabodnik]

(...)

What? Did you actually read what I wrote? a) OV2, specifically 100GS, was an example of a mechanic that forces people to move to a face of a boss, and not an example of a fight where executing positionals is difficult. b) SAM does have positionals on Gekko and Kasha, which compose approx. one in four of their GCDs (outside of Midare Setsugekka). Not sure why everyone is so caught up on the positionals issue, but I'll take that as credit that my other three points are sound.

[Darian]

ALL melee lose dps on 100GS. Again monk is not special and just like the other dps. If your unable to hit most of your positional on that super scripted fight then it sounds like you don't know the fight and need to study it more. World 1st was able to clear the hardest fight O4s with a monk and not a SAM. So I'm having a hard time understanding what's wrong with MNK. Or how you can say MNK needs buffs and SAM needs nerfs.

[Svabodnik]

If your unable to hit most of your positional on that super scripted fight then it sounds like you don't know the fight and need to study it more.

Read:

(...)and not an example of a fight where executing positionals is difficult(...)

*****

Or how you can say MNK needs buffs and SAM needs nerfs.

Read:

(...)This isn't to say that I'm on the "nerf SAM!" bandwagon. Personally, if I've got gripes about MNK it's due to its large number of near-useless and/or contradictory abilities (...), how downright clunky RoF makes the rotation, and how the damage is heavily dependent on both RNG and party composition (...). Of course, these are all issues completely separate from the existence of SAM(...)

(...)Not that I'm holding it against SAM, mind you.

If there is an issue with misunderstanding it, let me spell it out more clearly: I am not saying "nerf SAM" or "buff MNK".

[KingFrost]

A fight where a Monk can hit every positional and not lose GL isn't a fight, it's a transendence into Rhalgar himself, and using whatever "boss" before you as a puching bag for your demo of the true Fist of the Destroyer.

Seriously tho, all this fuss over about 100 DPS? Being hardcore sounds tough. To me that's just a few more seconds of enjoying the Boss's theme. Because that's essentially what it comes down to.

Btw, that 100, is that an average parse over Susanoo and Lakshmi? If, it'll be interesting to see how the Monk stacks up in Omega, considering your less ****ed than usual. Gg to BLM tho.

[Shiroe]

Yeah. Once ppl saw world 1st clear had a monk and not a single sam the whole thread got pointless very quickly.

But like said, when do you need mnk over Sam? mostly when under- geared for 1st clears,.., not for speed farming / kills / fflogs..., where most of the time will be spent after that 1st clear

[Leonus]

But like said, when do you need mnk over Sam? mostly when under- geared for 1st clears,.., not for speed farming / kills / fflogs..., where most of the time will be spent after that 1st clear

Yea, but 100 dps difference between mnk/Sam will not be enough to sway a group from picking up a mnk if they are truly looking to Farm.

You come off as believing mnk and other jobs should be equal to Sam in farming/fflogs recording parties. Mnk and other jobs will get the kills just fine (mostly). We now do know for a FACT that Sam is not the end-all-be-all for everything.

[Thunda_Cat_SMASH]

But like said, when do you need mnk over Sam? mostly when under- geared for 1st clears,.., not for speed farming / kills / fflogs..., where most of the time will be spent after that 1st clear

Except for MCH, all DPS are good picks for farming runs, because people are typically overgeared already. Your argument has no legs to stand on.