SAM out classing all other DPS

[Shiroe]

There are more metas again, for either w-prog and speed kills. Mnk must have been chosen for mantra, a healing intensive fight. One with a intense dps check fight, they might have used a Sam instead.. (seemed almost as if 4.0 would have more or less "a single meta" for both w-prog and speed kills,.. glad it's not the case).

Maybe now a 3 caster meta, a "parallel" meta, might actually exist too?? (Smn buffing all casters a bit with Garuda + smn adding some utility, if Rdm goes down in the fight or is tied to mechanics).

Atleast when looking at Blm at 4.05, first real 4.05 impressions, maybe a 3 caster parallel meta might be possible, depending on the fight.

While now physical dps (and tanks??) seem more "exchangable" for possible metas too.. is there now possibly more "metas" for both w-prog and fast kills in 4.05?

[Enjuden]

Cause of what was it again? Oh right, Mantra.... given the gear at the time the help from it was bound to be needed. So I'd honestly expect that requirement to dwindle as people gear up. Once people are better geared, Mantra will become once more again, niche.

Ignoring evidence against your argument doesn't make your argument better, it makes it worthless. Losing less than 5% dps compared to the second job is not the end of the world. People need to realize this and stop whining about something that in the end, is entirely worthless to all but the top percentile. Which, if we go by the logic that you have, makes mantra not niche, but hilariously underused, and Samurai still got replaced regardless.

[KuroTenshi]

Cause of what was it again? Oh right, Mantra.... given the gear at the time the help from it was bound to be needed. So I'd honestly expect that requirement to dwindle as people gear up. Once people are better geared, Mantra will become once more again, niche.

This literally doesn't matter at all. The fact of the matter is this supposedly overpowered class has been ~dropped~ for another one. If it was as overpowered as people make it out to be to have high damage that never would have happened. Farming as fast as possible is cool but progression is the only thing that matters. If you can clear it once you can clear it again and if you only have to do it once a week 1 extra minute means jack shit. Yoshi may not be balancing for defensive utility but it's still just as important as offensive utility.

[Eyvhokan]

If utility doesn't retain, increase, or recover DPS... what is utility?

That's not utility; that's just part of the core job - to increase DPS. Those tools aren't 'utility', they are part of the main function of the job (damage) and are actually more like dependencies (or synergy) than utility.

Utility are tools that help outside your main role. Mantra and RDM heals/res are examples of this.

[Shiroe]

those are utility: mantra, rez.;
but they are more for world-prog or 1st clears metas

for speed farming /fastest clears metas; you mostly need "dps" buff/debuff utilities...

mnk might be better for the mantra henve 1st clears, ..but for speed clears (which will probably make up more of the parties), Sam will shine over Mnk

[MelvinK]

So whats the point of this thread really. You will have mix of people that speed clear and people that do first run (progression), population of player and class representation will reflect that

[Lastelli]

those are utility: mantra, rez.;
but they are more for world-prog or 1st clears metas

for speed farming /fastest clears metas; you mostly need "dps" buff/debuff utilities...

mnk might be better for the mantra henve 1st clears, ..but for speed clears (which will probably make up more of the parties), Sam will shine over Mnk

Assuming that will be the case...would that be a problem? Keep in mind that the difference in rDPS in a party with a SAM has been estimated to be around 100 dps points higher than a party using a MNK instead. And this 100 dps difference might be further limited with party buffs alignment. Again...is this a problem? Again...do we want sam to be a worse choice for raid progression AND speedrunning?

[Sawamura]

So whats the point of this thread really. You will have mix of people that speed clear and people that do first run (progression), population of player and class representation will reflect that

this thread is basiclly a whining without know the whole picture.
Example: I can´t do that dps number with my job or this job does too much dps I can´t tank it.

for speed farming /fastest clears metas; you mostly need "dps" buff/debuff utilities.
mnk might be better for the mantra henve 1st clears.but for speed clears (which will probably make up more of the parties), Sam will shine over Mnk

By the time people doing for speedrun farm/fast clear, they will already overgear level. So a samurai in party or not, is not matter. So Sam wouldn´t shine over dps.
If a party finder is strict to samurai only. Usually those group suck and blame another players. So don´t join!
So you can always make you farm group with FC or PF.

[Shiroe]

..

for "1st time ever" clears, you'd want mnk, mantra helping healers, when many are of the group are under-geared and healing is to tight to survive some moments, in such metas; Sam might not fit in, ..unless war and nin are missing??

"fast" clears (like under 8 min kills), for "fast (and multiple)" farming and for "speed kills on fflogs", you'd want Sam; ..doesn't matter if your over-geared or not, you want the highest dps comp for that fight; in such comps/metas, Sam still fits in well

there are scenarios, where Sam fits into metas,.. just with 4.05, there might not be one meta for all,.. nor maybe for 1st clears.. or for fast clears,.. even 1st clears might now have more meta possibilities, same for fast clears (blm might actually be part of some, and with that maybe smn too), with 4.05 it's more open, even if nin might still seem very favoured,
on the otherhand nin/Sam fits together well too (or is it a lose to have them together??)

[Darian]

Yeah. Once ppl saw world 1st clear had a monk and not a single sam the whole thread got pointless very quickly.