SAM out classing all other DPS

[Stormbad]

I'm leveling a SAM and one thing I can say for sure is how consistently good this job from 50-65, at no point did I ever feel like there was a skill gap or things missing to ensure I can maximize the job. And every level I gain, it just gets better and better. Compared to other DPS jobs, there are very awkward moments within a few levels there seem to be completely missing gaps in skills and the flow of the job.

[Shiroe]

Swiftcast and Triplecast does not exist I guess. it\\'s not 100% but it\\'s sure isn\\'t 0.

those are part of blm best burst, while the gab closers of melee are not as essential for the dps burst.. and can be held on to easier for gap closing

and Sam has a gab closer and gab increaser, both on short cds

blm is possibly the most difficult dps in end raids, even if it\\'s rotation is the easiest (can\\'t stand hearing things like: smn are harder to maintain in end raids, or Sam get punished hard)

for that both Sam and Blm both don\\'t have any utility (at least Sam has slashing, blm zero).., they should have an equal dps if not blm more.., but it\\'s by far not the case.., even rdm us doing better than blm

but blm is not the only class, that needs fixing, when looking at Sam and rdm.. (smn, drg and ofc mch have issues too, but maybe SE is waiting for more players to shift, like trying to get more on drg at start of 3.0)

[Ryaz]

Slashing isn't relly utility. It's synergy. All it does is increase dps potential which is our main role. Utility would be if Sam, as a DPS class, could raise allies, lower enemy damage to make tanking easier, restore hp/mp, etc. You can balance synergy abilities much easier than you can utility as all dps synergy abilities do is add more damage which can be figured our and balanced with some math. It's much harder to balance abilities like Raise, because they add an abstract value to the team.

[Elnidfse]

Slashing isn't ready utility. It's synergy. All it does is increase dps potential which is our main role. Utility would be if Sam, as a DPS class, could raise allies, lower enemy damage to make tanking easier, restore hp/mp, etc. You can balance synergy abilities much easier than you can utility as all dps synergy abilities do is add more damage which can be figured our and balanced with some math. It's much harder to balance abilities like Raise, because they add an abstract value to the team.

Except half of what you say is completely invalid. Yoshi gives no care about defensive increases.

Recently, samurai damage has been the subject of much debate, prompting many comparisons between jobs. In bringing samurai in line with other jobs, however, we not only look at solo damage values, but take all of the following into account:

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...80#post4263080

• Damage dealt when solo.
• Susceptibility to mechanics (jobs affected more by mechanics deal slightly more solo damage, and vice versa).
• Ability to raise a full party's total damage.

For instance, dragoon can greatly increase party members' damage, but deals less solo damage than samurai. In contrast, samurai boasts high solo damage, but cannot do much to increase party damage. Things such as the aforementioned susceptibility and the ability to perform ranged attacks are also considered.

Your raise example means absolutely nothing because it's not what jobs are balanced around. And yes a slashing debuff is utility. You can apply it which allows others not to. Much how a NIN used to just be able to avoid applying his if a WAR was in the party.

[Esoterikk]

I think if you nerf SAM damage you have to add Utility which will make them a required class alongside NIN anyway where as they are optional right now? If you nerf their damage and don't give them utility they wont be brought.

[Elnidfse]

I think if you nerf SAM damage you have to add Utility which will make them a required class alongside NIN anyway where as they are optional right now? If you nerf their damage and don't give them utility they wont be brought.

Let's not pretend this is even remotely true. Even if they were to put them on DMG comparable to Ninja's right now but remove their RDPS they would still not be excluded from parties to the extent that a certain two non melee jobs are. And if you're so worried about not being brought you should get in line behind WHM, BLM, MCH, DRG, and SMN. Because you seem to think that SAM should flat out be better and always have a guaranteed spot in every comp always.

[ElasmoFan]

Let's not pretend this is even remotely true. Even if they were to put them on DMG comparable to Ninja's right now but remove their RDPS they would still not be excluded from parties to the extent that a certain two non melee jobs are. And if you're so worried about not being brought you should get in line behind WHM, BLM, MCH, DRG, and SMN. Because you seem to think that SAM should flat out be better and always have a guaranteed spot in every comp always.

They've flat out said that there's a higher potency for those that don't bring the utility and it's not gonna be a negligible amount. Even if they get nerfed, it's not gonna be anywhere near the level you seem to think they will. They're not going to be put at the same potency level as a job like Ninja but not have the same amount of utility. It's not gonna happen.

[Elnidfse]

They've flat out said that there's a higher potency for those that don't bring the utility and it's not gonna be a negligible amount. Even if they get nerfed, it's not gonna be anywhere near the level you seem to think they will. They're not going to be put at the same potency level as a job like Ninja but not have the same amount of utility. It's not gonna happen.

The phrase "even if" was a what if scenario. Of course I nor anybody else think they're going to be placed at ninja's levels of potency (which you for some reason believe is low). But let's not cling to the support clause like it's some bible when an abomination like DRG is allowed to exist in this game with how disgustingly weak it is. A sam should not be a guaranteed spot. Period. And for that matter there should be no concept of a guaranteed spot to begin with.

[ElasmoFan]

some of those jobs just.. I don't even understand what could have possibly gone wrong to even get to this point.

[Ryaz]

Except half of what you say is completely invalid. Yoshi gives no care about defensive increases.



Your raise example means absolutely nothing because it's not what jobs are balanced around. And yes a slashing debuff is utility. You can apply it which allows others not to. Much how a NIN used to just be able to avoid applying his if a WAR was in the party.

Well, things like Raise SHOULD be taken into account. Even if BLMs were fixed to deal the same damage as a RDM (or even a little more), no one will take BLMs because they bring nothing extra to the table. A RDM's ability to Raise players and do s little healing can save the group from wiping. That's a pretty big deal. Ignoring the fact that they can do that is a huge mistake on any designers part.