SAM out classing all other DPS

[Elnidfse]

I think if you nerf SAM damage you have to add Utility which will make them a required class alongside NIN anyway where as they are optional right now? If you nerf their damage and don't give them utility they wont be brought.

Let's not pretend this is even remotely true. Even if they were to put them on DMG comparable to Ninja's right now but remove their RDPS they would still not be excluded from parties to the extent that a certain two non melee jobs are. And if you're so worried about not being brought you should get in line behind WHM, BLM, MCH, DRG, and SMN. Because you seem to think that SAM should flat out be better and always have a guaranteed spot in every comp always.

[ElasmoFan]

Let's not pretend this is even remotely true. Even if they were to put them on DMG comparable to Ninja's right now but remove their RDPS they would still not be excluded from parties to the extent that a certain two non melee jobs are. And if you're so worried about not being brought you should get in line behind WHM, BLM, MCH, DRG, and SMN. Because you seem to think that SAM should flat out be better and always have a guaranteed spot in every comp always.

They've flat out said that there's a higher potency for those that don't bring the utility and it's not gonna be a negligible amount. Even if they get nerfed, it's not gonna be anywhere near the level you seem to think they will. They're not going to be put at the same potency level as a job like Ninja but not have the same amount of utility. It's not gonna happen.

[Elnidfse]

They've flat out said that there's a higher potency for those that don't bring the utility and it's not gonna be a negligible amount. Even if they get nerfed, it's not gonna be anywhere near the level you seem to think they will. They're not going to be put at the same potency level as a job like Ninja but not have the same amount of utility. It's not gonna happen.

The phrase "even if" was a what if scenario. Of course I nor anybody else think they're going to be placed at ninja's levels of potency (which you for some reason believe is low). But let's not cling to the support clause like it's some bible when an abomination like DRG is allowed to exist in this game with how disgustingly weak it is. A sam should not be a guaranteed spot. Period. And for that matter there should be no concept of a guaranteed spot to begin with.

[ElasmoFan]

some of those jobs just.. I don't even understand what could have possibly gone wrong to even get to this point.

[MiruWest]

Let's not pretend this is even remotely true. Even if they were to put them on DMG comparable to Ninja's right now but remove their RDPS they would still not be excluded from parties to the extent that a certain two non melee jobs are. And if you're so worried about not being brought you should get in line behind WHM, BLM, MCH, DRG, and SMN. Because you seem to think that SAM should flat out be better and always have a guaranteed spot in every comp always.

Tf? NIN and MNK are right behind SAM in terms of damage. SAM does not have a solidified slot in a raid, NIN is literally the ONLY melee with a guaranteed spot atm. DRG/SMN/MCH are the only classes atm that things look bleak for, every other class can find a slot.

To say you dont count Raise as utility is bs. A RDM can do the same DPS as a BLM with alot less effort, but what pushes RDM over? Embolden and Raise, which will be a good send in prog.

[Elnidfse]

Tf? NIN and MNK are right behind SAM in terms of damage. SAM does not have a solidified slot in a raid, NIN is literally the ONLY melee with a guaranteed spot atm. DRG/SMN/MCH are the only classes atm that things look bleak for, every other class can find a slot.

To say you dont count Raise as utility is bs. A RDM can do the same DPS as a BLM with alot less effort, but what pushes RDM over? Embolden and Raise, which will be a good send in prog.

To say I don't count?
1)You mean to say that yoshi-p does not count support when balancing DPS http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...80#post4263080
You can appeal to whatever you want but it means little with the guy who's in charge of this game does not support the point you stand behind.
2) Nobody is not counting Embolden. Embolden is a RDPS increase. An rDPS increase is NOT a supportive defensive increase. It's a rDPS increase. Unless you are part of the cast that have the mindset of "if SAM gets a 2% nerf they won't be competitive" there's nothing to discuss here.

[MiruWest]

snip

Embolden isnt utility? TA isnt utility, BL isnt utility, Disembowel isnt utility? oh wait its actually IS considered utility by the community.

SAM doesnt need a nerf when you have the 2 other melee right behind it in terms of raw dps. Only melee needing to be brought up is DRG and all will be good. People need to stop crying for nerfs when they dont even have a legitimate reason for nerfing them.

[Elnidfse]

Embolden isnt utility? TA isnt utility, BL isnt utility, Disembowel isnt utility? oh wait its actually IS considered utility by the community.

SAM doesnt need a nerf when you have the 2 other melee right behind it in terms of raw dps. Only melee needing to be brought up is DRG and all will be good. People need to stop crying for nerfs when they dont even have a legitimate reason for nerfing them.

Did you even look at the link or at least gleam my post? Nobody is discounting rDPS. What you're trying to do is pretend that offensive cooldowns are the same as defensive supportive. They're not. Revive and cure and dismantle and palisade have NO bearing when balancing DPS output. What you think is considered utility by the community does not matter. Yoshi-P says it's not considered, so it's not. Revive and trick attack aren't in the same league. They're not on the same planet. One is being considered for balance of DPS. The other isn't Period.