SAM out classing all other DPS

[silentwindfr]

i will be blunt, i don't think blm need anything... people compare jobs without really look at the whole picture.

i will use the number of fflogs for explain myself, since it allows to have the data of many player.
the black mage highest dps is almost identical to the monk, ninja and red mage (about 4500) the different in average is not even 250 dps between the blm and the monk 3278 for the blm and 3511 for the monk. one is a ranged and one is a melee. the difference of dps is not that important.
same the difference between the blm and the rdm is about this: max damage 4565 (rdm) for 4553 (blm); the average is about 3391 (rdm) for 3278 (blm).... the difference is for the average about 120 dps... but rdm burst is a melee burst, meaning for use it, you need to endanger yourself what the blm haven't... you can continue to dps at ranged without take risk of the boss that turn and do a cleave or such.
even the movement of the boss will have no impact, and the time you need to move is shorter than melee since when you don't need to move you can restart right now to attack, not the melee that need to return to melee.

but that not the debats, the blm is at his place, it's more the drg that is far to behind...

a lot of player are simply shocked to see the meta of the game change with the add of two new class, it will be like this at the next expansion. some class will not be on the same level than other, because they have different tool leading to them be more interesting in other content. we have soo far not enough end game content for see if blm is good or not... rdm is strong, i have concern about them two out global coolddown skill that for me is a bit too strong.
but sadly we can often see a rdm be forced to stop to dps for...rez people. or simply assist heal... then... until we get more endgame content, can we really talk about balance on the jobs that have almost no difference in dps?

so far the only three jobs (for the dps) that really need to be look at are: Summoner, dragoon and machinist. outside this *shrugs*

[Galvuu]

snip

I disagree with like, most of what you said (and it doesn't really make sense), but I'm not here to debate any of this except two things.

Never use the 99% percentile. That thing is hella padded.
Use 75% through 90%. Much clearer picture, much less padding and a lot more parses for greater statistical significance.

And there's like 0 (actually 0) "danger" in being in melee range. When I Corps-a-Corps for my (literally) 5 seconds melee combo I'm not in danger. In fact, I frequently prefer to be near bosses at all times for damage shares and cone attacks (especially with BLM, because having to leave your LL god knows where to stay 5 seconds near a boss for a share is painful).
In this particular game, being in melee range has like, no additional threat. Some aoes are worse if you're up close, some are worse if you're far, and you need to learn where to stay. If the boss turns around and cleaves the party, well, first that's the tank's fault (or maybe a dps went full lazy and didn't pop Diversion prepull... I see that a lot) and second, it's likely that a healer might get bopped in the process. Realistically, you should never be getting cleaved if people are playing to the lowest degree of competence ("don't cleave the party" is like one of the bare minimums).

And man, you don't lose like any dps to heal/raise. You lose one gcd of dps. Your mana stays nice and put and you have no buffs/timers to mind, so there's no loss at all other than that one gcd of dps, and if you're using Lucid as you should, your mana stays the same until you raise. You can afford about 3ish raises before it becomes an issue. And if you're raising that much, odds are that party won't be able to clear whatever you're trying to clear on that pull anyway.

Oh, and note that all melee classes have gapclosers so then can return to the boss in a second if a mechanic forces them to move away. They can also attack while the party is moving around if they keep close to the boss.
Know who can't? SMN and BLM (RDM can semi-do it because of dualcast, you just need to slidecast into this stutter step of spellcasting).

[KirigiriKyouko]

Oh, and note that all melee classes have gapclosers so then can return to the boss in a second if a mechanic forces them to move away. They can also attack while the party is moving around if they keep close to the boss.
Know who can't? SMN and BLM (RDM can semi-do it because of dualcast, you just need to slidecast into this stutter step of spellcasting).

Swiftcast and Triplecast does not exist I guess. it's not 100% but it's sure isn't 0.

[Galvuu]

Swiftcast and Triplecast does not exist I guess. it's not 100% but it's sure isn't 0.

Yes, because in Susie I have to move once a minute, and not (literally) 4 times in 10 seconds for Levinbolt. Or puddles. Or knockback.
Same argument applies to melee. I guess they don't have these ogcds to quickly go near the boss. Go figure.

[Dualgunner]

Yes, because in Susie I have to move once a minute, and not (literally) 4 times in 10 seconds for Levinbolt. Or puddles. Or knockback.
Same argument applies to melee. I guess they don't have these ogcds to quickly go near the boss. Go figure.

To be fair, Dragoon's gap closers are on some bad cooldowns as well. Not that I'm disagreeing, just pointing out another way DRG is screwed compared to "Gap Closer Every 10 Seconds SAM" and "Resets Gap Closer with Raiton" NIN.

[Thunda_Cat_SMASH]

"Resets Gap Closer with Raiton" NIN.

I'd actually argue that SSD/ST are both easier to use than Shukuchi. I had to make a macro for Shu to make it easier to use.

[HoLoFoNo]

I'd actually argue that SSD/ST are both easier to use than Shukuchi. I had to make a macro for Shu to make it easier to use.

Shoulder tackle yes, SSD no. 60 seconds is far too long to be reliable, especially WHEN IT'S 1 OF ONLY 2 ABILITIES THAT IS TIED TO THE CORE MECHANIC OF THE CLASS. *Ahem* Shukuchi gets easier to use the more you play with it. I use it on controller so its clunkier than mouse but I've used it for stupid shit like trying to stylishly hit positionals and Suiton into *teleports behind you, kid* trick attacks so it feels a lot better to use now, especially considering its unrestricted movement. Because there is also a delay in its activation, you can use it to effectively nullify knockback by activating it a fraction of a second before you actually get hit and if you do it correctly it should fling you back to where you positioned it even if you got send flying to a distance that it couldn't normally cover.

Enhanced Shukuchi makes it so much more reliable.

[Powercow]

I'd actually argue that SSD/ST are both easier to use than Shukuchi. I had to make a macro for Shu to make it easier to use.

Shukuchi isn't a part of your rotation. Shoulder Tackle is rarely available when you need it simply because it's used on cooldown for damage. SSD has the same problem, but DRG at least has elusive jump to move around.

And don't say "lol just save it" or you're not getting a pizza roll.

[Galvuu]

To be fair, Dragoon's gap closers are on some bad cooldowns as well. Not that I'm disagreeing, just pointing out another way DRG is screwed compared to "Gap Closer Every 10 Seconds SAM" and "Resets Gap Closer with Raiton" NIN.

DRG did get shafted. In many ways. But given the JP outrage, I'd say the likelihood of fixing that is decent. I hope

snip

No I don't? Hell, I've been very critical of most "buffs" people propose for BLM and more or less been saying SMN is in a harsher spot.
(We do have mana management because of the mana ticks, but never mind. I can see this discussion isn't going anywhere).
I never said casters were harder than melee either- I said they get punished more harshly by mechanics (which I stand for). That does not account for all that's difficult in a job.

The argument "RDM goes melee for burst so he gets" ahead is... what does this mean? If you have a melee combo you should do more damage?
What is this "weakness" that makes BLM "more efficient"? I've no idea what you're saying at all.
I mean this in earnest. Nothing in that paragraph makes sense.

[silentwindfr]

snips

do blm have positional? do blm need to return to melee after move because of a big aoe? do the blm risk to get a cleave because the tank move the boss?

no, no and no....

BLM is a ranged, he have an aoe to avoid, he get out of it and return to his dps, a melee get out of the aoe and need to return to melee for fight.
BLM have 0 risk involved... you simply want to be the best dps of ranged, great news in terms of raws power in Final Fantasy series.... Summoner is the true big dps of ranged. blm is only the caster that have spell that allows to be efficient most of the time (because of weakness, what we don't have here)

blm don't have any mana management, you switch into ice umbral and your mana is back, other need to manage them mana... honestly speaking, for me blm player are like diva that don't accept that other can do better than them... and since....pfiuu.... for age. not the first time blm come and complain to not be top dps...

RDM need to go in melee for them burst, then get ahead of blm is normal... whenever a jobs need to get in melee they need to take risk. and i will post this:

■Balancing DPS Roles■

I already touched upon this in my previous LIVE letter, but I'd like to take the opportunity to clarify balance among DPS roles.

Recently, samurai damage has been the subject of much debate, prompting many comparisons between jobs. In bringing samurai in line with other jobs, however, we not only look at solo damage values, but take all of the following into account:

Damage dealt when solo.
Susceptibility to mechanics (jobs affected more by mechanics deal slightly more solo damage, and vice versa).
Ability to raise a full party's total damage.


For instance, dragoon can greatly increase party members' damage, but deals less solo damage than samurai. In contrast, samurai boasts high solo damage, but cannot do much to increase party damage. Things such as the aforementioned susceptibility and the ability to perform ranged attacks are also considered.

We can't say with absolute certainty that the values will be perfect from the start, and it will be difficult to get a feel for the adjustments before they are released alongside Omega: Deltascape (Savage). For now, we will work towards applying those changes deemed necessary to 4.05, and we look forward to your feedback after you have played the raid.

blm is not more affected than any ranged class with cast... plus he get 2 skill for instant cast then *shrugs* (without forget the proc that allows to cast instant a few spell)

I'd actually argue that SSD/ST are both easier to use than Shukuchi. I had to make a macro for Shu to make it easier to use.

totally with you on this, i find the gap closer of rdm and sam to be amazing in comparaison of all other one.