SAM out classing all other DPS

[Nominous]

"Wanting to be relevant" is such a paper thin argument.

I'm not saying SAM should be nerfed (nor am I saying it's overpowered, as "imbalanced" is not the same thing as overpowered), but if the ultimatum for a class is "touch it and it dies," maybe the dev team should go back to the drawing board and make sure the class isn't so overly dramatic about any sort of change.

As it stands though, I feel people are exaggerating about relevancy. Most of the people here it will never apply to, as most casual groups never rejected or locked Monks out in HW. Unless you specifically are progression raiding or doing speed kills the game is mostly just having fun.

Yo, your character looks way cooler!

Also, relevancy does matter, it's not really an exaggeration. For pretty much everyone actually, casual or not. I know, because I've experienced this before. Thankfully I don't have to deal with it anymore, since I've been settled into a raid group for quite a while now. Let me tell you what it's like when you don't have that luxury, though.

If you don't have a great network of friends, or an FC that's into raiding, you're depending on PF or "FFXIV Recruitment" in order to find a Raid group. There really aren't many other ways to get into it unless you run into a random advertised linkshell or something. That means you're at the mercy of the recruiter, and their team's specific needs, rather than what you want to play. There were times where I spent weeks looking for a group before a tier launched, even contemplating server transfers before Cross-World started. Back then, it was rarely ever the case you saw someone recruiting for DRG in 2.xx, and MNK in 3.xx. Therein lies the problem. People try and run 'meta' no matter what. Can't stop it, people like the path of least resistance, and highest efficiency if they can help it.

And I don't think it's that they need to go back to drawing board with SAM. I believe it's squarely not the problem. The main offenders are piercing debuff, Trick Attack, and maybe even Embolden, but almost all DPS Jobs have something like that now. So, I think the problem, is that DRG balance is tied to like 3 total Jobs because of Disembowel alone. Where the difference between 5% Disembowel and 10% Disembowel literally could be never bring DRG, or bring DRG and 2 Phys Ranged instead of one. I think the problem is that NIN is so good with TA, it often leaves you with effectively one melee spot in most situations. Without those, there wouldn't be a need to justify any kind of DPS gap on SAM, because it wouldn't need to exist.

I guess it's not the game we play, though. So I guess the only real answer is to slap a 5% damage up for the party in some shape or form, to make it fit in, and call it a day, huh?

[Oscura]

Yo, your character looks way cooler!

Thanks, I appreciate the compliment!

Also, relevancy does matter, it's not really an exaggeration. For pretty much everyone actually, casual or not. I know, because I've experienced this before. Thankfully I don't have to deal with it anymore, since I've been settled into a raid group for quite a while now. Let me tell you what it's like when you don't have that luxury, though.

If you don't have a great network of friends, or an FC that's into raiding, you're depending on PF or "FFXIV Recruitment" in order to find a Raid group. There really aren't many other ways to get into it unless you run into a random advertised linkshell or something. That means you're at the mercy of the recruiter, and their team's specific needs, rather than what you want to play. There were times where I spent weeks looking for a group before a tier launched, even contemplating server transfers before Cross-World started. Back then, it was rarely ever the case you saw someone recruiting for DRG in 2.xx, and MNK in 3.xx. Therein lies the problem. People try and run 'meta' no matter what. Can't stop it, people like the path of least resistance, and highest efficiency if they can help it.

As someone who actually swapped to tanking for quite a while in 2.xx because DRG was so unwanted, I understand the sentiment. I do have to admit I did ignore the perspective of someone who is completely either new or just disconnected from the community. I've often had LSes, friends or FCs I'm in help or be a part of actively participating in my parties, so I made an assumption that some if not most players would have access to these things. Sometimes I forget there was a point where I didn't.

And I don't think it's that they need to go back to drawing board with SAM. I believe it's squarely not the problem. The main offenders are piercing debuff, Trick Attack, and maybe even Embolden, but almost all DPS Jobs have something like that now. So, I think the problem, is that DRG balance is tied to like 3 total Jobs because of Disembowel alone. Where the difference between 5% Disembowel and 10% Disembowel literally could be never bring DRG, or bring DRG and 2 Phys Ranged instead of one. I think the problem is that NIN is so good with TA, it often leaves you with effectively one melee spot in most situations. Without those, there wouldn't be a need to justify any kind of DPS gap on SAM, because it wouldn't need to exist.

I guess it's not the game we play, though. So I guess the only real answer is to slap a 5% damage up for the party in some shape or form, to make it fit in, and call it a day, huh?

I don't exactly believe SAM is the problem and more that sometimes it feels like putting SAM into the game, and to an extension RDM, is like trying to fit a jigsaw piece in the wrong place and then forcing it. As you said, things that existed prior to SAM are mostly what could cause problems with it in parties and/or balancing it in a nutshell. Dragoon by itself is in a weird spot because of disembowel, I actually cursed SE the moment I found out that despite NIN and SAM having slashing res down, that BRD and MCH don't have piercing for themselves. So as you said, the difference between ARR/HW disembowel vs SB disembowel can completely change how relevant the class is, or what classes join it, or how many ranged are necessary. The irony is that right now, DRG is easily the most "selfish," dps, if only because it has piercing debuff all to itself and refuses to share. I've constantly stated my issues with TA and Ninja as a whole many times, I just don't have any reasonable solution I could offer for it if I had to be honest.

As for the 5% damage up to make it fit in, I presume you mean SAM? If so, it's a band-aid solution but it could possibly alleviate complaints and/or controversy around the class. Without simultaneously ruining the class' feel or flow, unless people specifically desire to never buff their team or do anything aside from damage. I very seriously doubt SE would ever take that route, but I feel like it's more possible than them reworking the other classes so that there's more synergy or less reliance on specific ones (NIN general, ranged phys to DRG, Non WAR tanks to nin/sam, etc) since honestly I'm very cynical about them.