SAM out classing all other DPS

[Lastelli]

I'm going to entertain this because I was curious on the actual number.

The problem with this reasoning is that it doesn't take into account two things:
1) the multiplicative effect of buffs, meaning that the more party members with party dps increasing skills there are, the more useful these buffs become;
2) the possibility of having more party members of the same role that greatly benefit from a given utility (remember, drg+mch+brd was optimal damage wise in creator).
Also you forgot to mention Dragon Sight, which is yet another dps increasing skill that drg have.

Now, I'm not sure why you've chosen to compare sam and drg when drg is clearly the only one melee dps that need some buffs and some qol fixes (notice how you don't have any nin/mnk complaining about their damage on the forums?), but if you try to compare sam vs mnk/nin you'll notice that what I said is correct. If you factor in mnk and nin party utility, and this includes skills like mantra, shadewalker and smoke screen since these can be potentially used to increase healers' and tanks' dps, not only direct dps buffs like brotherhood and trick attack, you'll notice that sam, nin and mnk are actually very well balanced. Drg, however, needs some qol fixes and a slight dps buff. But if they just nerf sam to the point where the damage difference between sam and mnk/nin is any lower than the current 5-10%, I guarantee that nin/mnk will be a strictly better pair than any other pair including a sam.

[Galvuu]

snip

I thought the point of his post was to highlight that DRG is considerably weaker than the rest.
Maybe it was the DRG picture?
You can still get a decent heuristic approximation by assuming the average raid dps over the course of a fight.
I'm not even sure how easy it is to align Trick Attack and Dragon Sight (I don't really play DRG).
Either way, there's no way MNK+DRG+NIN highlights the value of DRG more than DRG+BRD+MCH.
The fact the buffs are multiplicative doesn't change it a lot because this also holds for any other job combination, and right now MNK+NIN+BRD+RDM beats anything with a DRG in it handily.
I could go over the numbers more carefully, even though I suspect, as stated above, they'll only stack harder against DRG.

Again, please note that everything I said is solely about DRG. NIN is clearly the best of the melee lot, and MNK can actually hold his own vs SAM.
Sorry if this was unclear

[Lastelli]

I thought the point of his post was to highlight that DRG is considerably weaker than the rest.

Well...trick attack has a 60 seconds cd, dragon sight 120 seconds so ideally you can have dragon sight on 1 dps every 2 trick attacks. But yes I agree that DRG needs some love. I haven't even leveled it yet but just by looking at SSS dps requirements it's pretty clear that the dev team was very, very cautious with DRG personal dps because it brings so much utility...but I believe they went overboard a little. Though if I understand correctly, many dragoons have a problem with the new DRG gameplay because of how life of the dragon interacts with mechanics and jumps and I'm not sure that can be changed too much at this point.

[Galvuu]

Well...trick attack has a 60 seconds cd, dragon sight 120 seconds so ideally you can have dragon sight on 1 dps every 2 trick attacks. But yes I agree that DRG needs some love. I haven't even leveled it yet but just by looking at SSS dps requirements it's pretty clear that the dev team was very, very cautious with DRG personal dps because it brings so much utility...but I believe they went overboard a little. Though if I understand correctly, many dragoons have a problem with the new DRG gameplay because of how life of the dragon interacts with mechanics and jumps and I'm not sure that can be changed too much at this point.

Well, NIN brings more utility (than any melee, and honestly only BRD beats it out of all the dps), and they seemed fine in buffing it despite that.
I really feel for DRG players right now.
(Also, props for actual smart critique of the numbers before )