SAM out classing all other DPS

[Shiroe]

Yeah, world fastest speed runs, there mnk would have trouble getting in, in 3.4/3.5-ish, didn't deny that.., but mnks still gut spots in other (fast) farming pfs. Casters had bigger trouble getting in.

And Sam like mentioned, still has the slashing buff. Sam won't become a mnk 3.4/3.5, if the gab is lowered a bit for other classes. Maybe just extend the duration of the Sam slashing buff.

[Limani]

And Sam like mentioned, still has the slashing buff. Sam won't become a mnk 3.4/3.5, if the gab is lowered a bit for other classes. Maybe just extend the duration of the Sam slashing buff.

That would doesn't anything, because the Slashing Debuff is a Sen that we used earlier then the Debuff falls off

[Lastelli]

Yeah, world fastest speed runs, there mnk would have trouble getting in, in 3.4/3.5-ish, didn't deny that.., but mnks still gut spots in other (fast) farming pfs. Casters had bigger trouble getting in.

And Sam like mentioned, still has the slashing buff. Sam won't become a mnk 3.4/3.5, if the gab is lowered a bit for other classes. Maybe just extend the duration of the Sam slashing buff.

The slashing debuff is irrelevant as well since statics will probably bring a NIN as well for trick attack. Exclusive utility is what matters, and SAM brings none. Unless for some reason the optimal party composition will not include a NIN, but I highly doubt that.
The slashing debuff rotation is fine, it will never fall off if the SAM knows what he's doing.

[MomoOG]

The slashing debuff is irrelevant as well since statics will probably bring a NIN as well for trick attack. Exclusive utility is what matters, and SAM brings none. Unless for some reason the optimal party composition will not include a NIN, but I highly doubt that.
The slashing debuff rotation is fine, it will never fall off if the SAM knows what he's doing.

This is bad logic. If NIN is automatically included in every party than there is another imbalance that needs to be adjusted. No single class should have a guaranteed spot.

[Shiroe]

Extending it was just an idea, could turn it into a aoe slashing debuff, making Sam special.. but lower it's overall personal aoe damage (besides nerfing the Sam in general). There are surly some possibilities for Sam, so it won't lose the meta spot, it wants to hold on, if getting nerfed a bit.

Imo there shouldn be no meta, but that's probably unrealistic too. Just the gap/OP is not good, same for balances or other criterias we seen on the past.

[Leonus]

DRK was a good tank at release but Machinist and AST were in bad shape. Now SAM and RDM are outperforming more complex classes to play with no real reason for it (RDM also has good raid utility).

Please explain? Having played Drg, Nin, Mnk (During ARR) at endgame I find none of these classes harder than the next, just different.

Are any of you really looking at how inflated these parses are? These people literally do run after run, using damage buffs on one individual until the get a good parse number for a fight, then they do it for the next person. This is why I grew to hate Fflogs, making the 95% percentile look like some kind of verbatim dps number that people should be hitting with their classes but are these stupid, overinflated, ridiculous numbers that take more luck and group coordination to pull off than their own personal skill.

[Leonus]

yeeeeah I call bullshit, you cant even compare samurai to the kinda shit I gotta go through as a mnk main. Tell me when do you have to sacrifice DPs in order to prime or use your hardest hitting moves?

Every single time I use kenki, I have to make a decision, there is a lot of FORWARD planning with samurai. When are you sacrificing DPS? Are you throwing away your GL stacks early?

When can circumstance cause you to lose Sen or Kenkei whether because of poor luck with telegraphs or and ill timed boss jump?

Easy, when I have 3 Sen, 40 kenki and spend 20 on kaiten for a buffed Midare and boss goes invincible the momeent that my attack goes off. 1080 potency lost in less than 2 seconds. I don't get that back, sure I can meditate/Meikyo but I don't get those Sen back that took me 21 seconds to obtain.

And dont get me wrong I love my class, useless moves and all I play for the gameplay not because Im broken. With that love comes a certain loyalty to the brand which is what makes the whole situation bother me when I get to watch a class far exceed my DPS with an utter lack of the same kinda effort I must put into mine. Its like the rest of us are fighting with crossbows and sam has an assault rifle with a grenade launcher attachment "But its hard to decide when I should fire the grenade"

Over exaggeration, really. People in general seem upset that their personal dps can't match a Sam of the Sam skill, which is okay. If you could, why is the Sam there? I didn't find Drg, Mnk(when I played it) or Nin hard. I've been a melee dps main since ARR launch. I don't particularly find Sam hard, It's just different.

[Nominous]

yeeeeah I call bullshit, you cant even compare samurai to the kinda shit I gotta go through as a mnk main. Tell me when do you have to sacrifice DPs in order to prime or use your hardest hitting moves? When can circumstance cause you to lose Sen or Kenkei whether because of poor luck with telegraphs or and ill timed boss jump? And dont get me wrong I love my class, useless moves and all I play for the gameplay not because Im broken. With that love comes a certain loyalty to the brand which is what makes the whole situation bother me when I get to watch a class far exceed my DPS with an utter lack of the same kinda effort I must put into mine. Its like the rest of us are fighting with crossbows and sam has an assault rifle with a grenade launcher attachment "But its hard to decide when I should fire the grenade"

There's different types of difficulty, and dismissing another Job's complexities and not certain aspects of your own is pretty unfair. Writing this, I realized that SAM's difficulty can be summed up by simply saying there's a lot of damage available to the Job, but it's extremely easy to leave on the table. It's not entirely difficult to maximize, but there's a lot of it to be done, and doing things incorrectly means you're either pushing your big hits further back, or you're flat out leaving potency sitting. So yes, deciding how to deal the high damage is crucial. And to criticize other things you said?

GL is a passive buff that's given by doing combo finishers, even if you're doing the incorrect combo or rotation. BoTD at this point is pretty much the same, and some DRG consider it braindead until you hit LoTD, because all it calls for is hitting buttons in a sequence. Same with BLM, because you can't even really lose Enochian unless you want to (transposition actually helps). GL is shorter, but it's been made easier with Form Shift, Shoulder Tackle for quickly getting back to the boss after mechanics, the buff application change in 3.xx, the extended timer (almost certainly required for Riddle of Fire), and Riddle of Earth. At this point, MNK has the tools for the majority of scenarios where they'd lose GL, and all it comes down to is, "Hit these buttons- Keep GL".

SAM doesn't have an upkeep mechanic, so that's a fair judgement, and in that sense alone, GL remains a (very) slight step above SAM in difficulty. However, as all Sen are tied to combos, the difficulty becomes not overlapping/stacking a Sen you already have. This concept is functionally the same as not wanting to complete combos on WAR with maxed Wrath/Abandon stacks. So actually, Sen not dropping off is actually more of a detriment. You lose Sen/damage in a different way than losing GL. You lose damage because you need to refresh your buffs, but you also end up stacking Sen that's already active if you don't have Hagakure up. So yes, they get hurt just as badly by ill-timed mechanics.

This concept becomes even harder on boss jumps. You'll almost certainly have a surplus of Kenki, so your Job is to do your normal opener, but you have to switch around a ton of abilities based on how much Sen, AND Kenki you have. In Susano, sometimes I have max Kenki on phase change, sometimes I don't. Sometimes I phase with the damage buff up, sometimes with the speed buff. Sometimes I have 1 Sen, sometimes 2, sometimes 3. You have to think about how you want to use these to the maximum damage benefit, because it's VERY easy to WASTE damage on the Job, in these scenarios (which come up often). And whatever choice you roll with, it will change the timing of buffs, the opener, and even the following rotation in some scenarios.

The buff timers are long, but it's because you have situations in which you have to cycle two, 3-hit combos, into an Iaijutsu, into another GCD before getting back to it. That scenario comes very rarely, but it does take your timer to it's limit. Most times you're clipping them, so it doesn't matter that they have long timers and becomes a moot point. But during mechanics, they can become extremely tight, again, because of Sen not falling off, and trying to cycle through Sen in the correct way you need to based on buff priority, AND Iaijutsu priority.

I'm not sure ANY Job, even MNK, needs to sacrifice damage to prime hard hitting moves, unless you're talking about Tornado Kick. And if you ARE talking about Tornado Kick, they clearly have an intention for when that's to be used, even if the intent is lame.

You're greatly exaggerating the 'effort' comparisons. It is not the same kind of effort, nobody should argue that. But it is effort all the same. I could call BRD easy because they don't have positionals or requirements to stay in close range of the boss. It isn't a lie that they don't have positionals, but they have different things to worry about, making them difficult in their own way. Same goes for every Job, I've noticed. So yes, SAM are in fact putting in work, you're just downplaying it because it isn't the kind you do.

[Galvuu]

Are any of you really looking at how inflated these parses are? These people literally do run after run, using damage buffs on one individual until the get a good parse number for a fight, then they do it for the next person. This is why I grew to hate Fflogs, making the 95% percentile look like some kind of verbatim dps number that people should be hitting with their classes but are these stupid, overinflated, ridiculous numbers that take more luck and group coordination to pull off than their own personal skill.

FFlogs has the "remove balance" filter now (two dps numbers for each parse now). You can sort them and get a more accurate picture (so, removing the padding).
That said, nothing changes. You see a swarm of SAM on top, the occasional MNK, then a few NIN and lastly one or another RDM.
Kinda disheartening, really...

[Lastelli]

Extending it was just an idea, could turn it into a aoe slashing debuff, making Sam special.. but lower it's overall personal aoe damage (besides nerfing the Sam in general). There are surly some possibilities for Sam, so it won't lose the meta spot, it wants to hold on, if getting nerfed a bit.

Imo there shouldn be no meta, but that's probably unrealistic too. Just the gap/OP is not good, same for balances or other criterias we seen on the past.

They designed it that way. They wanted SAM to be the "highest-dps-no-utility" job. They will not nerf it just to give it some kind of half-assed utility, at least during 4.x. Also, nerfing SAM personal dps would result in a #deletesam meme because, again, zero relevant exclusive utility. They probably learnt their lesson with MNK. MNK had dragon kick INT down debuff in arr and hw, but since it wasn't exclusive nobody cared and its slight advantage in personal dps wasn't enough to compensate for its lack of party synergy. That's why SAM is the way it is right now. They know very well that they need to give a zero utility job some relevant damage advantage to make the job itself desirable. Like it or not, SAM will always outdps every other job during stormblood.

This is bad logic. If NIN is automatically included in every party than there is another imbalance that needs to be adjusted. No single class should have a guaranteed spot.

PLD and AST both have a guaranteed spot though. So yeah...call it imbalance if you want, but players will always find the jobs or compositions most suited for progression and speedruns.