SAM out classing all other DPS

[BlackThought]

So basically, nerf SAM until its no longer the best DPS, then all the other DPS that have utility will outshine it, and it will be kicked out of the meta, cuz people werent happy not being on top of the parse.

No one is making this argument. The point of contention is degrees, not absolutes. "Samurai is OP" does not equal "Samurai should not be top DPS."

[Valkyrie_Lenneth]

No one is making this argument. The point of contention is degrees, not absolutes. "Samurai is OP" does not equal "Samurai should not be top DPS."

The problem is, if you nerf SAM to the point where other jobs with more utility make up for the loss of damage, you effectively make SAM worthless in a raid.

[BlackThought]

The problem is, if you nerf SAM to the point where other jobs with more utility make up for the loss of damage, you effectively make SAM worthless in a raid.

Which is literally where 'degrees' comes in. Balance is a worthy pursuit and this circular argument is tired.

[Valkyrie_Lenneth]

Which is literally where 'degrees' comes in. Balance is a worthy pursuit and this circular argument is tired.

Ok, then how much do you nerf it? any more than it is, and its within the 5% utility of most other high hitting jobs.

[BlackThought]

Ok, then how much do you nerf it? any more than it is, and its within the 5% utility of most other high hitting jobs.

Til consensus opinion doesn't lead to dozens of "SAM outclassing all other DPS" on the official forums and subreddits?

[Oscura]

Ok, then how much do you nerf it? any more than it is, and its within the 5% utility of most other high hitting jobs.

Are you implying if Samurai gets nerfed at all that it will be "within the utility" of other jobs? This is the most ridiculous thing I've read all day. Monk's brotherhood is its only real utility and 5% for every physical attacker in the party depends on the actual member of physical attackers* in the party excluding the tanks and it. If there is only 3 members the total raid dps will definitely not make up for the ridiculous damage SAM puts out.

edit: said melee, meant physical, forgot about bard/mch

[Blacktestament7]

Let me rephrase.
You seem to be a MNK main, so no matter what you do, no matter how hard you try, a SAM player with the same skill level as you will constantly be between 10 to 15% above you.
To a DRG, this difference in DPS jumps to 15 to 20%.
In short, if you want to buff every DPS job to be roughly at the same level as SAM, you need to give everyone (but SAM, obviously), the equivalent of apermanent AoE Balance effect or a regular one for the worst jobs.

If you think that: 1) it doesn't make SAM OP, and/or 2) encounter balance won't be drastically affected, then you are completly delusional.

I'm a SAM/MNK main that doesn't know which I'm going to end up raiding with, if I do at all at this point. But again, if you nerf or buff SAM to be only 3% to 5% higher than the second highest other mdps you will make the job obsolete. It's not about personal dps, it's about how much I bring to the team. If a SAM is doing 10% to 20% higher damage, good. My job isn't to match that as a MNK my job is to push my damage as high as I can and provide a 5% buff to that SAM to increase it's dps when I can. If you take that damage away, why would you ever bring a SAM to anything. If DRG matched SAM, why wouldn't I take that class when it has bat litany, dragon sight, and a debuff that applies to three other classes. If NIN matched SAM, there's zero reason I wouldn't take that instead when it gives a 10% damage up every minute to the party. The lack of utility is a problem in and of itself and will always be one but if the FFteam keeps making these kind of classes you have to balance it this way. There's no alternative. This has already happened before and I'm lost on why you would want it to happen again.

As for the encounter balance issue, nerfing one class to oblivion isn't going to do anything but imbalance the classes to the point where said class is played in any scenario. Pretty much how MCH is sitting now and for some reason people want SAM to be there for whatever reason. Every class will be nerfed or buffed to a point where encounter balance will be skewed regardless. This isn't something that's going to be avoided, it's an eventuality. Even then SAM isn't op to the point that it makes any class unviable either. While I think DRG is lower than it should be it's not low enough to warrant nerfing SAM just because someone has DPS envy.

[Valkyrie_Lenneth]

Are you implying if Samurai gets nerfed at all that it will be "within the utility" of other jobs? This is the most ridiculous thing I've read all day. Monk's brotherhood is its only real utility and 5% for every physical attacker in the party depends on the actual member of physical attackers* in the party excluding the tanks and it. If there is only 3 members the total raid dps will definitely not make up for the ridiculous damage SAM puts out.

edit: said melee, meant physical, forgot about bard/mch

Not if there are only 3 members. if there are 4 members, and each of them has utility that would make up for the DPS that replacing one of them with a SAM would, then why bring a SAM, since the utility would buff the other jobs as well. Including tanks/healer dps

I'm a SAM/MNK main that doesn't know which I'm going to end up raiding with, if I do at all at this point. But again, if you nerf or buff SAM to be only 3% to 5% higher than the second highest other mdps you will make the job obsolete. It's not about personal dps, it's about how much I bring to the team. If a SAM is doing 10% to 20% higher damage, good. My job isn't to match that as a MNK my job is to push my damage as high as I can and provide a 5% buff to that SAM to increase it's dps when I can. If you take that damage away, why would you ever bring a SAM to anything. If DRG matched SAM, why wouldn't I take that class when it has bat litany, dragon sight, and a debuff that applies to three other classes. If NIN matched SAM, there's zero reason I wouldn't take that instead when it gives a 10% damage up every minute to the party. The lack of utility is a problem in and of itself and will always be one but if the FFteam keeps making these kind of classes you have to balance it this way. There's no alternative. This has already happened before and I'm lost on why you would want it to happen again.

As for the encounter balance issue, nerfing one class to oblivion isn't going to do anything but imbalance the classes to the point where said class is played in any scenario. Pretty much how MCH is sitting now and for some reason people want SAM to be there for whatever reason. Every class will be nerfed or buffed to a point where encounter balance will be skewed regardless. This isn't something that's going to be avoided, it's an eventuality. Even then SAM isn't op to the point that it makes any class unviable either. While I think DRG is lower than it should be it's not low enough to warrant nerfing SAM just because someone has DPS envy.

Also all of this. ^

[Shiroe]

Just the gap is too big:

A) making the other jobs feels less rewarding
B) making too many flock over to Sam, Sam will be (if not already) overused
C) making it hard for casters (or mch) get a spot in farm pfs
D) making one player/dps hog all the big buffs, Sam (good night FFLogs)


We've seen how unbalanced/ over the top classes are not good gor the game. Sam might not need a nerf, but some others a slight buff. And Sam doesn't seem to get punished much either, compared to other classes.

[Valkyrie_Lenneth]

A bad SAM and a good SAM are night and day. a bad SAM does about half the dps lol.