SAM out classing all other DPS

[Kacho_Nacho]

how can we give inputs...if we don't have the number? SE said no to parser because they afraid that it will be source of toxicity... but how we supposed to improve if we cant have number on what damage we deal, how many crits etc? your statement is contradicting.

yes of course people should be fine bring any job that they prefer to to raid/dungeons. but that did not excuse them to play poorly. because he may have fun, but the others may not. that what parser CAN tell us.
On topic:

SAM should be generally outclassing other DPS, as it design of their kit. Currently we can't say the class balance is working or not because the endgame raid isn't here yet. I agree with you that we shouldn't have mindset that any job is incapable to do the raid. but it has happened before and we should keep critical to the devs. Being critical does not mean we undervaluing what they have done, but they are human too.

Hi Aion. You can provide input by stating someone's DPS seems too high or too low. As for self-improvement, I feel most of us know instinctively when we are improving. We start getting comms, we don't have to stop and think about our priority list, we notice larger numbers on the screen, etc...

However, I believe parsers can be of help in gauging your self-improvement. The problem comes in when players only look at the top damage. They blow off the utility another class brings. They pay no attention to the fact that the #3 ranked damage dealer interrupted the boss's AoE attack six times while the top two damage dealers didn't interrupt the boss at all. They only focus on the all mighty top dps number and that hurts the game tremendously.

So, I'm not contradicting myself. I just know that SE has banned parsers for good reason and we have to rely on our own experience to gauge how well we, or another player, are doing.

Also, it is fine to be critical. No one likes a Yes Man.

If you, me, or anyone else notices a problem we should let the devs know! We should tell them exactly what we are seeing in a clear and polite manner.

However, we also have to accept that this is not game design by forum vote. Once we send off that post, our part is done. The ball is then in SE's court.

[Ryaz]

@Kacho_Nacho: Exactly. So many people put stock in the numbers alone. It's somewhat understandable as it's easier to gauge performance based on hard data than abstract things like utility. People can see an improvement in DPS numbers quite easily but it's harder to tell when someone is providing better support.

But we can't let the mindset of "bigger numbers means a better class" cloud our vision, especially when it's data collected from test dummies. Fight mechanics will severely alter numbers and utility abilities really shine in raids where they can save parties and buff other players higher.

[Selova]

snip

Wrong again. SE has no issues with people using parsers/combat logs as long as you are using them appropriately and not using them as a tool to shame people. You are also extremely naive if you think the devs alone can handle class/job balance. There is a reason other mmos use public test realms as a means for class balance before a expansion/patch goes live, so you don't end up with the messes that warrior and scholar are in.

[Frowny]

Welcome to an MMO forum where if your class isn't topping the charts AND bringing the most utility to the group, it's trash.

It is more the balance behind it. Take MCH/BRD and DRG/NIN. Out of those 2 sets, DRG/MCH do less DPS but also have less utility. Not being at the top if fine if you bring candy for the rest of the raid, but if you don't bring that and are easily replaced...

But we can't let the mindset of "bigger numbers means a better class" cloud our vision, especially when it's data collected from test dummies.

Sure, fights will change but we're already seeing problems with just dummies and fights with 20s downtime. DRG is a prime example: on a dummy it is... "ok", but in a fight with any downtime we get hosed out of our eyes. Compared to NIN, they can pop huton and move along like nothing happened.

Overall, yes SAM is ridiculously powerful right now, as is RDM too honestly (though is anyone shocked the 2 new classes which killed DPS queues are extremely powerful?)

[Neophyte]

You don't even need parsers to decide about the meta.

Meta comp is just the composition with fastest clear times, so even without a parser the meta would propably be known within a week of the normal raid release.

[Okamimaru]

One thing I've noticed that nobody else said is that while SAM puts out big DPS they also seem to take damage harder... maybe it's just me... just seems like in fights when the group gets hit my hp drops lower than the other dps (except magic users)

[Kacho_Nacho]

Wrong again. SE has no issues with people using parsers/combat logs as long as you are using them appropriately and not using them as a tool to shame people. You are also extremely naive if you think the devs alone can handle class/job balance. There is a reason other mmos use public test realms as a means for class balance before a expansion/patch goes live, so you don't end up with the messes that warrior and scholar are in.

SE has said that parsers are not allowed. It's to their credit that they have turned a blind eye towards their use because the community overall has shown restraint in their use. You can be certain the moment people start using them inappropriately the ban hammer will come out.

Me naive? I suppose so but not extremely naive. Anyhow, I think you aren't seeing the forest for the trees. I'm not stating that we should just sit and be silent while the devs sit in some ivory tower. I'm stating we should obey the terms and conditions while providing feedback. In addition, we accept that our part in the development cycle is finished once we provide our feedback, and trust that when the devs say they are looking into an issue, they are actually looking into the issue and not blowing smoke.

[Selova]

snip

I'm not sure I follow you when you say "obey terms and conditions" when it comes to feedback. Are you referring to people using parsers to provide feedback on classes/jobs? There isn't anything wrong with that if so, it's partly what the tool is used for and while SE does not endorse parses they don't outright prohibit their use as long as you're using them responsibly.

[wintercoat]

This entire conversation took a highly amusing turn when they deleted the FFLogs thread...

[Inuk9]

All the parse information are avaiable in game. It's called combat log. The parse software only picks that info and calculate your damage in a Damage/second formula.

As a ps4 user, I really could use a personal parser (Just want to know my damage/healing) because it is really obnoxious to ask other people for my numbers all the time.