SAM out classing all other DPS

[Ephier]

This is such a simple situation, I'm not understanding how blind people are to why SAM is balanced the way it is.

So. Let's say they brought everyone closer to Samurai damage. Let's say SAM does... at BEST, 10% more damage than the next best Job. Why bring SAM for 10% more damage, when you could have Battle Litany for the WHOLE PARTY, and Dragon Sight? Why bring SAM when you could have Trick Attack FOR THE WHOLE PARTY? Why bring SAM when you could have Brotherhood and Mantra FOR THE WHOLE PARTY?

Each slot in your party in an end-game setting needs to be looked at in terms of not only it's raw DPS, but it's overall benefit to total raid DPS. The most powerful DPS right now are NIN and RDM. Specifically RDM, because they can offer some of the highest damage, it can heal, res, AND offers a damage buff that is comparable in strength (due to uptime) as Trick Attack. Same as NIN, who is the second highest Melee damage next to SAM, AND offers Trick Attack to your party.

SAM is powerful, but it adds nothing to your party but damage. If you're taking it, it NEEDS to fulfill this role. I'd be careful what you ask for. Because when other things get buffed, and SAM complain (the same way MNK complained, for the same reasons), SAM is only going to get buffed in the end, and then they'll really be broken. The same thing happened in 3.xx where MCH and BRD got counter-buffed against one another because one community complained, then the other.

You are missing the point of what I said. There is absolutely no reason there should ever be a 25% damage gap between the highest and lowest DPS. EVER. That gap just literally invalidates the weakest class. SAM will not be buffed. I see them taking around 100~ or so DPS from SAM the same way they hit NIN in 2.45. MCH was a balancing nightmare since the start. They couldn't figure out how to balance either of them and over buffed both of them. The DPS order should be Melee>=Casters>Ranged. That's fine. But the current gap between top and bottom is too big. It needs to be narrowed. Seeing as how you are a SAM your points and view point are biased. But pretty much the entire community besides SAMs think that they are overtuned and need to be brought down a little.

[Nexxus]

Yes SAM is powerfull and gain more power with group utilities that are bring to him, but the DPS that is shown as his own is in fact (part of it) the dps acquired from other.


So if my DPS is at 4000, it means that 100 of it belong to the Ninja debuff, or/and 100+ of it to the astologian card buff, or 100+ of it to the "insert another job utility here".

Stop saying it has an harder, better, faster, stronger DPS where it fact, most of it belong to others.

And no, the rotation cycle is not as simple as you may think, of course there is one, but unlike nin (i can tell for nin, as i have it leveled to 67, and sam to 70), their rotation (nin) will be the same, where as a sam, it'll depend on your Sen's active, your own buff actif, and your kenki bar.

I often make mistake and have one of my buff wear off before i could reapplied. Very often my rotation change, because of my Sen active, i have to overthink of what i'll be using, and when... or when meyko sishui is active but i have already one Sen active, but one of my buff gonna disapear, if it worhtwhile to use it or keep it a little while.

There's so much factor to take into consideration that make sam more difficult to play that you may think.


Overall, if you gathering the total DPS of your party's member with and w/out sam, it's probably gonna be the same ~

[Ephier]

Yes SAM is powerfull and gain more power with group utilities that are bring to him, but the DPS that is shown as his own is in fact (part of it) the dps acquired from other.

So if my DPS is at 4000, it means that 100 of it belong to the Ninja debuff, or/and 100+ of it to the astologian card buff, or 100+ of it to the "insert another job utility here".

Stop saying it has an harder, better, faster, stronger DPS where it fact, most of it belong to others.

And no, the rotation cycle is not as simple as you may think, of course there is one, but unlike nin (i can tell for nin, as i have it leveled to 67, and sam to 70), their rotation (nin) will be the same, where as a sam, it'll depend on your Sen's active, your own buff actif, and your kenki bar.

I often make mistake and have one of my buff wear off before i could reapplied. Very often my rotation change, because of my Sen active, i have to overthink of what i'll be using, and when... or when meyko sishui is active but i have already one Sen active, but one of my buff gonna disapear, if it worhtwhile to use it or keep it a little while.

There's so much factor to take into consideration that make sam more difficult to play that you may think.


Overall, if you gathering the total DPS of your party's member with and w/out sam, it's probably gonna be the same ~

You are aware that SAM is capable of doing 4.6k DPS SOLO. Right? That means without help from anyone else.

[Nexxus]

Show me where you saw that (in dungeon i mean and solo).
On a normal mob it's probably normal as they can deal pretty decent damage solo, because their higher skill isn't depending on placement (front, back, rear) but just a casting time that can be interrupt.

Also, i saw a lot of people having a full ilvl310 with Materia V melded, probably your sam you saw was full Melded VI. (the gap dmg on normal mob become more potent).

[Creativity]

You are aware that SAM is capable of doing 4.6k DPS SOLO. Right? That means without help from anyone else.

You're worried about that but how many people in this game will pump out those numbers.

[Nominous]

That's fine. But the current gap between top and bottom is too big. It needs to be narrowed. Seeing as how you are a SAM your points and view point are biased. But pretty much the entire community besides SAMs think that they are overtuned and need to be brought down a little.

For one, there's really no bias because I'm just a melee enthusiast. I play all of them, and have raided as all of them at some point or the other, never switching because of damage capability. DRG was the closest to my aesthetic interests, and now it's SAM.

Two, I understand exactly what you're saying, I just disagree. In the simplest way it could possibly be put- This is not a theory. We have all the evidence we need from 3.0 MNK, and how that played out. The community, in general, prioritizes synergy and total raid DPS gains than personal contribution. And again, we can look and see how MNK had higher personal DPS than the other 3 melee, by a solid 10% or so. However, TA offset that damage discrepancy, and Disembowel offset that damage discrepancy. Sure, you could have brought MNK, sure your total raid DPS would look fairly similar. You would have missed out on Battle Litany, and Shadewalker/Smoke-Bomb though.

In relation to the weakest DPS, that is not the truth in all scenarios. I can't think of a DPS weaker than NIN last patch cycle, yet they were auto-include for most raid groups, because of TA. The lowest DPS in the game right now (if we're to believe the SSS indications) have Hyper-Charge (which is active longer than TA if I'm not mistaken, even if it's weaker), and Troubador/Foe's. They are already auto-include in most scenarios based on their cross-role abilities that help with resources, but now also have a defensive cooldown, as well as the previously mentioned party synergy buffs. They don't need help competing because they bring quite enough to the table, and if their spot is contested because of DPS at all, it's by RDM or another caster, not SAM.

The same situation exists for SAM as MNK in any scenario, it's really not that hard to see. Close the gap, and then SAM becomes useless, plain and simple. The community is fickle when it comes to this. The moment that any DPS gets close to stepping on SAM toes, the immediate response will be, "Who cares about SAM bringing 400 DPS when you could have x raidwide buff, or res from a caster, or x utility". I'm not saying that SAM damage isn't crazy and absolutely insane- it is. But if it isn't, then it becomes a negligible benefit that can be outdone by any number of things from other DPS kits.

And let's think about it even more critically than that. What would you say the reason to bring SAM would be, in the perfect world of balance, where they aren't more than 5-10% above the other DPS that have party buffs and such?

[Leonus]

Sam and not have to be the highest DPS, by a fair margin. There really isn't much to debate, they bring the least utility for a group so their utility has to be that when they are played right then you can not touch their individual numbers before raid wide buffs are taken into account.

Any extra damage they generate isn't really theirs.

You are aware that SAM is capable of doing 4.6k DPS SOLO. Right? That means without help from anyone else.

Your point? Let's say those are cherry picked parses. Kaiten midare setsuga can crit for 41k damage, is that reliable? No, not at these current ilvls.

[Shiroe]

When brd used to do the lowest DPS on 2.0, it was due to his massive support, but a brd could still atain good dps in fights involving massive movement and with a little help from drg. Now brd and mch are way too off? that difference can't be attained with a drg piercing buff. Besides are Drg still mandatory for ranged dps? And any buff Sam gets will push his numbers even higher, and Sam will hog all the buffs.

Atm the balancing is off. Sam (and Blm aoe) damage are just too high. Besides so many ex-mch, ex-drg, ex-mnks flocking over too Sam. If it weren't for Bahamas summon, even more Smn would now flock over to Blm.

Hasn't SE learnt a thing or two from making anything too OP? Looking at balances, Drg 3.X Mch 3.4 etc.

Maybe Mnk can keep up in 8 man raids with multiple melee in the comp, but seeing how far behind the other dps are, SE over did it with Sam. Just like with Nin at its launch.

[Leonus]

Hasn't SE learnt a thing or two from making anything too OP? Looking at balances, Drg 3.X Mch 3.4 etc.

Maybe Mnk can keep up in 8 man raids with multiple melee in the comp, but seeing how far behind the other dps are, SE over did it with Sam. Just like with Nin at its launch.

When Sam gets the buffs, those are not his extra numbers, the show up on his parse, but they are not his. I'd say SE put Blm and Sam exactly where they needed to be. Right at the top.

[Nominous]

I agree things have gotten wonky, but there's always going to be a best damage dealer, and worst damage dealer. A best support and worst support. Unless we want the game to be homogenized, which it's already approaching (with Dragon Sight, Brotherhood, Embolden, and Devotion), it will have to have some variance.

But anyways, BRD was low DPS and high support. What's the inverse of low DPS and high support?

High DPS and low support. Except SAM has NO support. There's ALWAYS a reason to bring a DPS that has some form of support. Think critically, and really say what you'd give SAM to compete against literally any other DPS if it doesn't have high numbers? Why would you bring them?