SAM out classing all other DPS

[Niyuka]

SAM is the best DPS class, it was also advertised as such. They wont (and cant) go back on that now. Theoretically, other classes were supposed to bring support abilities to make up for their inferiority in comparison to SAM, but judging from what we can test and see right now, at least at item lvl 314 this is not the case.

The problem being also that since SAM is the best DPS class on its own (as designed), it makes better use of most single-target buffs, thus it always is best to buff the SAM until aggro becomes a problem, so you basically require a PLD tank who has better aggro (and is the best tank anyway) right now.

So, IF you go for performance, SAM is best, PLD is best and AST is best in their respectives roles ,with BLM having a specialized AOE role (that is currently not needed in the EX content).

[SkyCake]

SAM is the best DPS class, it was also advertised as such.

Apologies to the OP and others actively participating in this thread since I have no desire to. BUT! I am curious if this has a source? I don't have any doubt in you or anything, I just think this would be pretty neat! But, I couldn't find a source when I tried to Google it. My friend is hyped for Samurai when he gets back from vacation. I think this would make him happy to know!

[Kuwagami]

SAM is the best DPS class, it was also advertised as such. They wont (and cant) go back on that now. Theoretically, other classes were supposed to bring support abilities to make up for their inferiority in comparison to SAM, but judging from what we can test and see right now, at least at item lvl 314 this is not the case.

You mean the SSS dummy parsers people have done? They clearly show SAM isn't that higher than the other jobs, and even more so since said other jobs are losing all their utility in SSS.

so you basically require a PLD tank who has better aggro (and is the best tank anyway) right now.

No tank has an aggro problem, unless you're in dungeons and both dps ST a different mob in a pack, or you're in raid trying to optimize dps while your co-tank doesn't know how to shirk.

[HyoMinPark]

No tank has an aggro problem, unless you're in dungeons and both dps ST a different mob in a pack, or you're in raid trying to optimize dps while your co-tank doesn't know how to shirk.

It's completely likely to get tanks that cannot manage aggro well. I have met many in DF lately that lose aggro to me while I am AOEing a large trash pack, because they fail to rotate properly between mobs. Just want to point out that there are tanks out there that have aggro problems.


With regards to this thread topic, SAM is the highest in terms of personal DPS. But they have absolutely no raid utility whatsoever to bring to the table other than that raw damage. They don't provide any buffs that other jobs don't already have, and they cannot provide any sort of party support functions (e.g., MP or TP refresh like BRD/MCH). I personally don't think they need to be nerfed. Let there be a big deeps DPS job; just because SAM outshines BRD in terms of personal DPS doesn't mean that I find BRD any less appealing or enjoyable (besides, I got used to being low on the DPS totem pole until the end of Heavensward when BRDs had some of the highest personal DPS providing they had all the right conditions). If I want to see big-dick numbers, I break out SAM. If I want to play a job I am the most familiar and comfortable with, I break out BRD. That won't change for me, and I doubt it would change for anyone else who has a non-SAM main.

(Though, I do still go .___. at SE adding a second MNK to the game after they commented on how MNK had such a lack of raid utility.)

[Ootarion]

SAM is the best DPS class, it was also advertised as such. They wont (and cant) go back on that now.

We should stop to consider that while SAM and RDM both have impressive amounts of damage, they have little to no crowd controlling, RDM at best has Tether as well as Break (a slow) and some AoE to deal with mulitple mobs but no means of survival beyond potions until lvl 54 when they get Vercure (dont get me started on the Drain spell, it SUCKS). SAM has AoE but unlike RDM has NO CC abilities at all as well as NO means of healing beyond potions aside from Bloodbath, Second Wind (500 potency heal) and Merciful Eyes (200 potency heal and requires being hit within the 3 second window of Third Eye). SAM has a darn good REASON to be as powerful as it is, all that power came at the cost of almost no means of keeping the enemy CCed or keeping themselves healed and in case no one has noticed they only have one Defensive ability, called Third Eye, which only lasts for 3 seconds and only reduces the damage of the next attack done to the SAM by 5%, oh they have a move that lets them leap back but that is by no means a crowd controller and requires Kenki.

So it isnt because of how the class was advertised (which I doubt they would advertise it as the best DPS) but more so because the class is pretty much geared towards being highly aggressive with almost no means of self preservation, you gotta give them something in place of not being all that good at self preservation, which in this case is a great offense being a great defense.

[qqmoarploxify]

SAM is the best DPS class, it was also advertised as such. They wont (and cant) go back on that now. Theoretically, other classes were supposed to bring support abilities to make up for their inferiority in comparison to SAM, but judging from what we can test and see right now, at least at item lvl 314 this is not the case.

The problem being also that since SAM is the best DPS class on its own (as designed), it makes better use of most single-target buffs, thus it always is best to buff the SAM until aggro becomes a problem, so you basically require a PLD tank who has better aggro (and is the best tank anyway) right now.

Saying that each class is flat out "The Best" is probably inaccurate, and will change based on a fight to fight basis. Also, it would be dumb to design SAM, or any job, the flat out best in its department, doesn't fit the MMO style of balancing.

[Kabooa]

Generally speaking, the WoW style MMOs aim to have the DPS classes well within a margin of 5% of each other. There will always simply be the best class at any one time, fixed with minute tuning. The classes in these design paradigms usually bring something else or maintain some sort of unique utility that makes them superior in certain situations.

So long as the lowball DPS are capable of clearing the content, then it's fine. The rest is just peen measurement.

Samurai is no more out of place now than it would have been in the early eras of the Themepark MMO. It deals more personal dps but brings very little that bolsters everyone else, while the rest are all well within an acceptable margin while also bringing in utility that far outweighs the amount you lose. If it were a matter of raw numbers, then we'd only ever have melee groups, and while it is still possible that Stormblood raids will allow for this, it's doubtful the paradigm has shifted that much.

[Crewman]

Saying that each class is flat out "The Best" is probably inaccurate, and will change based on a fight to fight basis. Also, it would be dumb to design SAM, or any job, the flat out best in its department, doesn't fit the MMO style of balancing.

SAM was intentionally designed to be the better DPS at the cost of utility. At least that was the goal for the job. Not sure how accurate this is, but there is a thread discussing this.

[Nominous]

Saying that each class is flat out "The Best" is probably inaccurate, and will change based on a fight to fight basis. Also, it would be dumb to design SAM, or any job, the flat out best in its department, doesn't fit the MMO style of balancing.

There is no game in existence that executes 'perfect' balance. It does not exist. And if anything, it's probably the worst in MMO's, because sometimes content is designed that inadvertently benefits one Job's kit in an insane way compared to others.

Also, designing characters to be "The best at something" is always at the cost of something else, and is a common theme in any game that strives for balance. In a fighting game for example. A grappler like Zangief can execute a move that deals about 20% of your life in one move. They are THE best damage dealt per move/input. That is how they are designed, because their tradeoff is (usually) terrible movement options, and few reversal options. A zoner/keep-away character is given great ranged tools, but terrible health to balance the few times you may get in on them, etc etc.

Translated into our game... SAM was made to be the best at damage output, because it's tradeoff is fair. And actually, SAM is still treading on very thin ice. In the situation where you can't bring out the maximum effectiveness of the rotation, OR you die even once, the benefit of bringing the SAM was entirely lost. You've brought the same amount of DPS as any other Job, but nothing to benefit your party.

[Morzy]

SAM is the best DPS class, it was also advertised as such. They wont (and cant) go back on that now. Theoretically, other classes were supposed to bring support abilities to make up for their inferiority in comparison to SAM, but judging from what we can test and see right now, at least at item lvl 314 this is not the case.

The problem being also that since SAM is the best DPS class on its own (as designed), it makes better use of most single-target buffs, thus it always is best to buff the SAM until aggro becomes a problem, so you basically require a PLD tank who has better aggro (and is the best tank anyway) right now.

So, IF you go for performance, SAM is best, PLD is best and AST is best in their respectives roles ,with BLM having a specialized AOE role (that is currently not needed in the EX content).

So basically what you're saying is SAM utterly replaced Monk. Sadly.