SAM out classing all other DPS

[BlackThought]

What kind of degenerate cares about NUMBERS in an RPG?

I mean, really. /sarcasm

[Esoterikk]

What a convenient position to have when you play one of the most powerful and rewarding jobs (and don't have to deal with PF exclusion bs)...
I wonder if roles were to be reversed and SAM had come out like MCH in 3.0 (weak as hell), you'd have that position.
People are in their right to complain if they need to play clunky jobs for no reward and no competitive chance VS the top jobs.
But sure, let's chalk it up to "meta".

How does nerfing the top job solve the problem of playing a clunky job? All that will happen is you are still playing a clunky job but the boss is dying slower. You should be concerned about fixing your clunky job.

[Galvuu]

How does nerfing the top job solve the problem of playing a clunky job? All that will happen is you are still playing a clunky job but the boss is dying slower. You should be concerned about fixing your clunky job.

I'm concerned about both. Because, you see, there's only 4 slots for my role in a party with 9 available options.
And like rational, intelligent beings that we are, we tend to favour efficiency.
Not only that, but I too like feeling like a god of destruction barrelling through raids. I like being rewarded for my dedication (shocker).
I want the clunky jobs to get fixed and I also want us all to get equal opportunity to do equally well.

And I don't want to hear this "buff 'em all" nonsense. People have responded time and time again that it only brings power creep (correctly so).
I'm not even a person that favours SAM nerfs- the job I complain the most about is NIN- but what you wrote really has no basis to stand on.

[Dualgunner]

I originally came at this from the mind of "Buff them all." But after reading a few arguments, Red Mage needs some potency nerfs, but I stand by Summoner and Black Mage still needing tweaks and buffs to them as well. Summoner, for instance, shouldn't be as punishing as it is and Black Mage needs something done to make its 4.x rotation a clear choice over the 3.x and 2.x rotations.

[Esoterikk]

snip

It only brings power creep if you buff jobs that are already high, for example BLM should be up with SAM yet slightly lower being caster. Doing this doesn't induce power creep because you aren't going to replace the utility jobs and you will just be on even footing with MNK, SAM If you nerf SAM DPS suddenly you will see them drop, sure it could use a slight potency nerf but it will always have to be a top damage job as that's its roll.

[Ryaz]

snip

I played MCH in 3.0. Yeah, it sucked that it had a lot of problems, but I still played the job because I enjoyed it and wasn't excluded from content because I was a MCH. Hell, despite some reservations I proved on the very first day of Alex to a skeptical FC member that I could not only hold my own, but help the party in ways other couldn't with mp regen. If there's anything that keeps players excluding jobs in PF without givng them a chance, it's the Meta causing a sky-is-falling mentality, when in actually the jobs would be perfectly capable of clearing content without issue.

Failure at a DPS check on Bismarck EX, for example, people would blame squarely on the shoulders of MCH back in HW, when many times it was the other DPS jobs failing to play their jobs properly. But blame always went to the MCH, even if they were doing well, because the Meta said they suck and other players didn't want to own up to their own shortcomings. My very first Bis EX clear was like that. We we're having some issues with clearing and people wanted to blame the MCHs (we had 2)... Until a guy who had a parser spoke up and said "It's not them. It's the Drg."

Again, it's the nature of MMOs. I saw the same exact thing in WoW with Legion. A few classes really needed help, like Hunter for sure (like MCH and DRG here), but the difference between most classes was between 3-4% and people would still be complaining that Ret Pallies, Assassination Rogues and Fire Mages were too strong (I played a Frost DK and they were terrible in the beginning of the expansion). I watched many DKs go from "our class is garbage", despite being middle of the road, to "our class is fine" when it was topping the charts nearly every fight.

[Astrololol]

Now, I've only skimmed through the last couple of pages, but, it was very funny to see Samurai mains telling the rest of us to "Stop asking SE for SAM nerfs", while having an air of conceit.
Why shouldn't SE nerf your SB main class? Do you not want to be in our shoes, and possibly be sub-par compared to another dps class? :3c

Despite it being annoying to deal with BOTD/LOTD with groups who sit around twiddling their thumbs, I'm still going to main Dragoon. Having to resort to playing a class that doesn't really interest me isn't my thing. I'm used to playing "not as great as the rest" classes, from another MMO I used to play, anyways, so /shrug
Even though the Nastrond mechanic isn't really a matter of class DPS though, it's more of just a "this mechanic has multiple flaws within it".
If they made LOTD different, I would welcome the change.

[Dualgunner]

I think they just don't wanna end up Stormblood's 3.x Monk ^u^

[silentwindfr]

i still feel (and i have said it on another thread) that we forget a few utility the blm have as caster, like the mana transfert or apocastasis

[Galvuu]

i still feel (and i have said it on another thread) that we forget a few utility the blm have as caster, like the mana transfert or apocastasis

Every caster as apoc. Apocatastasis adds 0 value to BLM compared to RDM or SMN.
I answered you on the other thread, but I'll reiterate here:
BLM is unquestionably the best Mana Shifter in the game. They can afford to do it on cd with almost no loss.
That's actually not very useful at all though. It's about as useful as SAM's slashing debuff (it's useless). Neither should have much weight in balancing.
Further, as a RDM, I can afford to Mana Shift once per 3~4 minutes unless I'm rezing people left and right (but if I'm handling that, odds are my healers don't need the mana).
Plus, a BRD or MCH is a much better mp battery than we are (I never need to manashift if they're in the party).