SAM out classing all other DPS

[Dyvid]

Even you said this way. Still people is too focus self dps number and ignore fact how raid progression work. dps number isn´t for like hey dude look how much damage i just did.

I can agree with this statement. SE made a design change to add utility to dps at the cost of their actually numbers. People judge jobs based off of parsers and flogs; yet this tools aren't calculating buffs onto the player that casted it so they look weaker; flogs doesn't even track radiant shield let alone add that damage to the SMN that casted.

[KuroTenshi]

DPS is literally the job. The focus on utility is getting absurd. Bonus utility is great, obviously but DPS is utility.

Well sam was dropped for v4s apparently because of it's lack of utility so, I guess you can argue something that has, in practice, proven to not be true?

[BlackThought]

Well sam was dropped for v4s apparently because of it's lack of utility so, I guess you can argue something that has, in practice, proven to not be true?

Yes, a situational substitution absolutely disproves all empirical evidence to the contrary. Thanks.

[Senliten]

Well sam was dropped for v4s apparently because of it's lack of utility so, I guess you can argue something that has, in practice, proven to not be true?

Cause of what was it again? Oh right, Mantra.... given the gear at the time the help from it was bound to be needed. So I'd honestly expect that requirement to dwindle as people gear up. Once people are better geared, Mantra will become once more again, niche.

[Esoterikk]

They actually had a SAM and switched to MNK because it's DPS doesn't outshine utility + damage.

[Oscura]

They actually had a SAM and switched to MNK because it's DPS doesn't outshine utility + damage.

Someone in this thread already previously posted something that more or less proves at a certain level of skill a SAM will outdamage a MNK + Brotherhood. The difference however, was incredibly small. What you are not understanding is that utility makes it more progression safe. Read carefully. The fact SAM is not progression safe is just common sense. No one here has made an argument that SAM was/is required for progression or that it would completely invalidate classes in progression, but more specifically that optimizing in raiding and/or speedrunning that SAM would take precedence.

[Lambdafish]

The fact SAM is not progression safe is just common sense. No one here has made an argument that SAM was/is required for progression or that it would completely invalidate classes in progression, but more specifically that optimizing in raiding and/or speedrunning that SAM would take precedence.

This is something tanks and healers have been dealing with since 3.0, and that is fine (and only affects the top end min/maxers).

WHM is a pure healer, and will be amazing for progression, but once the fight has been learned SCH/AST will be better (up to the point where a WHM can solo heal)

[Exiled_Tonberry]

They actually had a SAM and switched to MNK because it's DPS doesn't outshine utility + damage.

I'm sure they wanted a Monk for Mantra if anything. Because damage is so ridiculous with their current gear.
What point is there in higher damage if you're dead afterall?

[Eyvhokan]

I'm sure they wanted a Monk for Mantra if anything. Because damage is so ridiculous with their current gear.
What point is there in higher damage if you're dead afterall?

Yep, was due to Mantra (actual utility, not fake DPS 'utility'), not for damage.

https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comme...tions/dkets84/

[Lastelli]

There's nothing wrong with some jobs being preferred for progression and others for encounter optimization. Specifically in SAM case, we already see how it is NOT preferred for raid progression because of its non existant utility and the fact that you can't plan around raid-wide buffs to handle a dps check and things like that. Utility isn't just a flat dps increase, it also provides more adaptability to handle mechanics (i.e. mantra, we saw it in a8s and we're seeing it again now). If you take the selfish dps, you must also forgo this kind of adaptability and this must be considered in the balancing process. On a side note, this is why the current brd/mch situation is so ridiculous and one of the biggest failures of this expansion.

Surely noone here wants to suggest that SAM should be a worse choice for progression and an equivalent choice for min/max optimization...I hope. Because, you know, melee jobs are so close when you compute their personal dps + rDPS increase by utility that any kind of nerf to SAM dps will likely sentence the job to total irrelevance.