SAM out classing all other DPS

[HoLoFoNo]

we had a similar situation before with drg/brd no one was shocked... people simply need to accept change

When there are more classes added, more classes are left out since they are adamant to sticking with 4 dps.

Also NIN has literally been meta since it was released. 3.x was its fairest iteration and even that was compulsory.

[Kaisinel]

People are trying to get a job that isn't even broken or overturned nerfed into the ground, smh.

[Exiled_Tonberry]

...

Monk, Ninja and DRG can all LOSE their resources. Their main means of DPS, simply because the boss decided to jump away or the mechanic dictates that you leave the boss for a certain amount of time.
Now, these 3 melee can attempt to upkeep their buffs with various abilities, but it does require a decent amount of player skill to do so.

SAM? Boss leaves? So what, Sen and Kenki is there to stay. They're simply not punished at all by boss mechanics. Their rotation is very simple too, and requires no double weaving of any kind. The most complex thing SAM has is Kenki skill usage, which does take time to get used to I'll admit.
Overall, I really do feel DRG or even MCH is a harder job to play than SAM. Which kinda debunks the whole "this job is so strong because it's difficult" comment.

[HoLoFoNo]

Snip

While I do agree with your comment, balancing around difficulty isn't wise anyway, unless said difficulty variation is minor. I do think however that classes should be balanced on how well they interact with mechanics in fights. Obviously there are different fights for different classes (remember SMN and A2S?) but it should be balanced in a generalizing way.

For example: BRD, RDM and MCH interact very well with fights (or rather, they don't have to). SAM and NIN interact fairly well. MNK interacts moderately (It's hit or miss, but nowhere as bad as it used to be). DRG and SMN interacts fairly poorly (punished too hard for dropping resources, something as simple as a boss's LB can mess you up) and BLM interacts very poorly (Leylines and Aetherial manipulation still stops you from doing damage and is quite situational, fights are getting more and more mechanically challenging requiring more movement and therefore more optimization from BLMS)

Now I don't want to get into the argument of 'is mechanically frustrating count as difficult?' because that's another rabbit hole but in a vacuum none of these classes are hard (naturally, but some are still harder than others just the basic rotation) but if they were to make a class that required you to input street fighter commands to get extra damage out of GCDs or hit your buttons in time with the animations to get the combo bonus and then made it overpowered as balls, all it would cause is the people who are shit to complain that they can't get top deeps ez mode and they would have to make it quite ridiculously overpowered to make it balanced with difficulty, which would cause total polarization between statics based on whether they have this example class or not.

[Thunda_Cat_SMASH]

Monk, Ninja and DRG can all LOSE their resources.

SAM/NIN/MCH/BRD/PLD/WAR/DRK/SCH/SMN/RDM/WHM/AST don't lose any resources at all when a boss decides to jump. If you want to call Huton, a buff on NIN, a resource, than SAM is doubly punished because they have no way of efficiently putting up Jinpu and Shifu. And guess what? All jobs lose buffs when a boss jump. The only job that loses resources on boss jumps is DRG. MNK loses a buff they can slap back on themselves in five seconds.

[MomoOG]

MNK loses a buff they can slap back on themselves in five seconds.

Uh what????

[Ryaz]

Monk, Ninja and DRG can all LOSE their resources. Their main means of DPS, simply because the boss decided to jump away or the mechanic dictates that you leave the boss for a certain amount of time.
Now, these 3 melee can attempt to upkeep their buffs with various abilities, but it does require a decent amount of player skill to do so.

SAM? Boss leaves? So what, Sen and Kenki is there to stay. They're simply not punished at all by boss mechanics. Their rotation is very simple too, and requires no double weaving of any kind. The most complex thing SAM has is Kenki skill usage, which does take time to get used to I'll admit.
Overall, I really do feel DRG or even MCH is a harder job to play than SAM. Which kinda debunks the whole "this job is so strong because it's difficult" comment.

Just a question, does Ninki actually degrade? I was under the impression that it works like Kenki and doesn't. And most people have realized that DRG and MCH are in a bad place right now. I don't think anyone is arguing that they're good.

The easiest way to balance selfish DPS and DPS with support abilities is to remove support abilities from those DPS classes altogether. Distribute them among your tanks, healers and ranged support (brd/much) and simply worry about numbers with DPS classes. I don't see that happening, though.

[Thunda_Cat_SMASH]

Just a question, does Ninki actually degrade? I was under the impression that it works like Kenki and doesn't. And most people have realized that DRG and MCH are in a bad place right now. I don't think anyone is arguing that they're good.

Oath, blood, Lily, Beast, Ninki, Kenki, Ammo, Aetherflow, Chakra, Fairy, B/W Mana and HEAT all don't degrade if they aren't used, and stay wherever they were indefinitely when you aren't hitting stuff. I remember wandering around for a while with 95 Heat outside of my FC for a few hours because I was lazy and it never dipped. The only point gauges empty if you change zones.

[Leonus]

Oath, blood, Lily, Beast, Ninki, Kenki, Ammo, Aetherflow, Chakra, Fairy, B/W Mana and HEAT all don't degrade if they aren't used, and stay wherever they were indefinitely when you aren't hitting stuff. I remember wandering around for a while with 95 Heat outside of my FC for a few hours because I was lazy and it never dipped. The only point gauges empty if you change zones.

*slow clap*


Man, it surprises me how many people don't know this. People always spouting "every other job looses all their resources".

Lol, wut? Really? Is that what you see? Everybody looses everything except Rem and Sam.

[Lastelli]

Just a question, does Ninki actually degrade? I was under the impression that it works like Kenki and doesn't. And most people have realized that DRG and MCH are in a bad place right now. I don't think anyone is arguing that they're good.

The easiest way to balance selfish DPS and DPS with support abilities is to remove support abilities from those DPS classes altogether. Distribute them among your tanks, healers and ranged support (brd/much) and simply worry about numbers with DPS classes. I don't see that happening, though.

Of course ninki doesn't degrade, just like chakra stacks and most other resources for other jobs except for self buffs. Speaking of buffs, SAM loses 2 that are very similar to greased lightning when taken together. The guy doesn't know what he's talking about, he probably didn't even unlock the job. And of course he doesn't know how NIN works at all since NIN is the melee job less affected by boss jumps.