SAM out classing all other DPS

[Selova]

Everyone already knew this, this isn't new information. They were advertised and designed to do massive amounts of damage with high potency finishers because they bring 0 utility to a group or raid. They are also far and away from being easy to play optimally, if you want the highest damage a samurai is capable of producing you really have to work for it. No one that kept up with the news of the new jobs is surprised they are on top.

[BelraugFire]

From what I have seen, they are easy, their rotation is as simple as a tank rotation. every other melee dps has more than one page of rotation, but I see that your mainning a Sam so your are biased.

[Vexsteel]

From what I have seen, they are easy, their rotation is as simple as a tank rotation. every other melee dps has more than one page of rotation, but I see that your mainning a Sam so your are biased.

lol. The rotation at 70 is not simple. It is very easy to see a good SAM vs a bad one. The number of ppl playing SAM has massively dropped since ppl now realize its actually a hard class since our opener is a 20 button chain before you even get into the rotation. if you stuff up once you can lose 1k dps very quick. also they bring no raid utility so the dps needs to be high. ALL other dps bring some form or raid utility. My main is also warrior inb4 winge

[Elnidfse]

lol. The rotation at 70 is not simple. It is very easy to see a good SAM vs a bad one. The number of ppl playing SAM has massively dropped since ppl now realize its actually a hard class since our opener is a 20 button chain before you even get into the rotation. if you stuff up once you can lose 1k dps very quick. also they bring no raid utility so the dps needs to be high. ALL other dps bring some form or raid utility. My main is also warrior inb4 winge

A 20 chain button opener is nothing compared to the rotation a 2.0 DRG had to deal with and continue to deal with. But despite their complexity they don't baseline flat out beat everybody in DPS now do they. No. In fact they're the lowest melee DPS and are down there on average with casters.

Also:

The number of ppl playing SAM has massively dropped

What? The number of parses for Samurai submitted, the only metric to judge population, has gone UP since Stormblood has launched and is now second only to RDM in terms of number of Parses submitted. Contrast MCH which has half the submitted results of the second lowest job.

they bring no raid utility

And BLM bring no raid utility either and yet they're so far above BLM because...?
Ah that's right. BLM is a skilless class. How silly. Anybody can play one of those and be good, right?

It is very easy to see a good SAM vs a bad one.

Yeah You can tell just how bad they are by looking at how high they're beating you by. A below average 50th percentile SAM does more DPS than the best MCH. I'm sure the 0.625% increase to rDPS is worth being so outclassed.
A 60th percentile SAM will do more DPS than the best BLM on average. I guess being the most susceptible class job to mechanics means they should be one of the least desirable jobs in the game.
A 60 percentile also will average higher than a 90th DRG. Clearly they're sub 0.7%-0.8% rDPS contribution justifies their absolutely laughable place on the ladder.

Hard to play? What a joke. While pushing your last 8% is indeed challenging you don't need it. You can be worse than the player you're paired against and still crush them by far more DPS than what they supply to the raid. So let's play a game using some numbers I made not long ago

Which one of these is the SAM


But See. I expect to run into some arguments. Let's multiply the uptime of the average (which is higher than mine that fight) top 20 MCH (15% uptime) or 0.625% total rDPS increase and apply that to everybody. Not just the DPS. We'll apply it to everybody including the healers.

At a 0.625% total rDPS increase my effective DPS is 3265.5 + a theoretically inaccurate 185.9 (That is, giving everybody a 20 DPS increase when in reality only 4 DPS benefit greatly and to this extent).

This brings my effective DPS to 3451.4
Versus 3718.6
Do you see the problem here?

Your "difficult" rotation amounts to nothing when you don't have to perform it well to get amazing results that far surpass every other jobs combined personal and raid potential DPS.

[KuroTenshi]

snip

Honestly this entire argument is made moot by only addressing obviously broken classes. Black mage should be more in line with monk and machinist should definitely be above bard. But as for comparing a 73rd percentile top personal dps class with an 82nd percentile lowest personal dps class, that's about where it should be. If you knew anything about the game you'd know certain classes bring about 400-500 dps overall throughout an entire fight just with their utility. Also if you want to continue to voice your opinion on difficulty, rDPS is the easiest thing in the game to provide. It literally requires one button press and everyone gets it. There is nothing in the game that's easier than gaining that chunk of damage.

Also on a side note, machinist effective rDPS is 1.3 not 0.6. So your theoretical increases jump you from around 3450 to 3630 or something to that nature. This is on top of the fact that the class is inherently broken and everyone knows that. So once everything is all said and done even if sam is untouched. That parse is likely to actually leave mch higher than sam overall. Which is actually a potential problem with the dps ladder. (Yes all dps should not provide the same exact amount of dps, otherwise ranged classes are inherently superior as they can take the place of melee or ranged whereas melee are forced to remain in melee range.) Though even that math is still wrong, but doing it correctly is more time than I and obviously you care to spend.

[Leonus]

A 20 chain button opener is nothing compared to the rotation a 2.0 DRG had to deal with and continue to deal with. But despite their complexity they don't baseline flat out beat everybody in DPS now do they. No. In fact they're the lowest melee DPS and are down there on average with casters.

Just to touch on this.... the 2.0 rotation for Drg was easily understandable. Maybe it was just me but Heavy thrust > Chaos thrust combo > Phlebotimize > true thrust combo. After that you would keep Heavy thrust and Phlebotimize in their respective spots and true thrust combo until you needed to really Chaos thrust combo for the dot without clipping it.

Jumps still used on CD, of course back then you HAD to deal with more severe animation lock and had to actually be careful.

The thing that made Drg irritating was when you HAD to hit the positional or you got none of the added effects. Back then Drg only had 2(?) Positional if I remember correctly.

Drgs rotation has always been pretty rigid, just in SB it's now even more rigid. I mained Drg for a long, long time. Drgs rotation has also gotten easier with each expansion. Not here to say you are wrong, not my intention. Just wanted to throw in my 2 cents.

I'm I've the mindset that the melee jobs are pretty easy. What's hard is just maintaining a high level of dps, at a certain point you aren't fighting your job, your fighting encounter mechanics.

[BlackThought]

Which one of these is the SAM


But See. I expect to run into some arguments. Let's multiply the uptime of the average (which is higher than mine that fight) top 20 MCH (15% uptime) or 0.625% total rDPS increase and apply that to everybody. Not just the DPS. We'll apply it to everybody including the healers.

At a 0.625% total rDPS increase my effective DPS is 3265.5 + a theoretically inaccurate 185.9 (That is, giving everybody a 20 DPS increase when in reality only 4 DPS benefit greatly and to this extent).

This brings my effective DPS to 3451.4
Versus 3718.6
Do you see the problem here?

You should have just /micdropped after this. This is breathtaking.

[FinnReid]

Everyone already knew this, this isn't new information. They were advertised and designed to do massive amounts of damage with high potency finishers because they bring 0 utility to a group or raid. They are also far and away from being easy to play optimally, if you want the highest damage a samurai is capable of producing you really have to work for it. No one that kept up with the news of the new jobs is surprised they are on top.

Monk's pitiful new 5% damage buff doesn't justify the gap between it and SAM. We're not talking a small gap either, cause the initial testing shows it being about 400 DPS higher than Monk at i314. SAM is way overtuned.

[Psycofang]

Only class that comes in a close second is blm and only because of Foul being as crazy as it is.

[Kiyosuki]

I feel this was their intention from the start; as what would have been SAM's more direct competition, MNK and DRG, single target DPS specialists...both respectively seem to be slowly being taken down a somewhat different direction as of SB, leaving SAM to be the dedicated single target specialist.

Honestly, it doesn't bug me as much as some other things. SAM should be amongst the highest DPS with how its kit is structured. I think the greater problems lie in balancing the other DPS jobs to be more on par in generating DPS sensible to their jobs' respective focus. I won't lie that SAM could maybe use a very slight trim or two with a few things, but otherwise this seems to be the plan they're structuring around.