SAM out classing all other DPS

[Exiled_Tonberry]

Why would they nerf SAM? It's doing exactly what the job was meant to do. Bring lots of damage. Their DPS isn't even that much higher than the other top DPS jobs. If you bring their damage down to where it is comparable to other classes, it loses all purpose as a job.

The problem is, even with utility, jobs like Monk can't keep up at all with the extra damage a SAM brings.
Monk does less than a ninja now, and on top of that their utility is severely limiting and RNG based. I could see if the difference is numbers was made up in utility, but it's not.

[Deithwen]

The problem is, even with utility, jobs like Monk can't keep up at all with the extra damage a SAM brings.
Monk does less than a ninja now, and on top of that their utility is severely limiting and RNG based. I could see if the difference is numbers was made up in utility, but it's not.

Then the issue is monk's low dps, not sam's dps.

[Deithwen]

The problem is, even with utility, jobs like Monk can't keep up at all with the extra damage a SAM brings.
Monk does less than a ninja now, and on top of that their utility is severely limiting and RNG based. I could see if the difference is numbers was made up in utility, but it's not.

If you want to make comparisons, you need to compare percentages. A dragoon can pull 4100 dps vs samurai at 4600, both having good crits on those. that's a 500 dps difference, which means sam is 12% above which is not that high. The gap closes with ninja and monk and is even closer with a blm.

If you put things this way, you realize that's Sam's numbers aren't that high, and any nerf would kill it's whole purpose in a raiding comp.

[Kaiden019]

The problem is, even with utility, jobs like Monk can't keep up at all with the extra damage a SAM brings.
Monk does less than a ninja now, and on top of that their utility is severely limiting and RNG based. I could see if the difference is numbers was made up in utility, but it's not.

That's the point. no job should be doing as much damage as SAM. If a job can do equal damage as SAM then you have absolutely no reason to bring a SAM in your party.

[MiruWest]

The problem is, even with utility, jobs like Monk can't keep up at all with the extra damage a SAM brings.
Monk does less than a ninja now, and on top of that their utility is severely limiting and RNG based. I could see if the difference is numbers was made up in utility, but it's not.

MNK is the 2nd highest DPS of the melee sitting around 4400k parses. Along with Brotherhood and the right team comp a MNK is shine. 4400 is not that far behind a SAM at 4600 when you still have utility skills not yet factored in.

Its like MNK's complained about not being brought to raids because of lack of utility and now you got it, yet proceed to complain about why you arnt the top DPS while STILL having said utility.

I believe in a utility bubble every class is where it needs to be. DRG and NIN are similar as they both have a lot of utility, MNK is next highest with some but not much utility, while SAM has none and is at the top.

[Nominous]

I believe in a utility bubble every class is where it needs to be. DRG and NIN are similar as they both have a lot of utility, MNK is next highest with some but not much utility, while SAM has none and is at the top.

Pretty much the thoughts I've been sharing. A single number is not a great representation of a Job, or the balance of said Job. Any tier, or ranking list should always account for more than just that, like your post.

And to be clear, there are Jobs that need love in 4.0. Some of them more dire than others, and I think that's important to realize. And I think everyone knows that, for the most part. But to say SAM outclasses them is probably an inappropriate way to approach the situation. They outclass the other Job's damage (if played right), but not their support, ease of play, or flexibility in 'all' content (we'll have to see with Omega). That's far more accurate based on the content we've seen so far.

[HoLoFoNo]

The problem is, even with utility, jobs like Monk can't keep up at all with the extra damage a SAM brings.
Monk does less than a ninja now, and on top of that their utility is severely limiting and RNG based. I could see if the difference is numbers was made up in utility, but it's not.

I'm not sure what you have seen, but I'm pretty sure MNK does around the same as ninja without BH (RNG dependent because lolmnk) and from the SSS dummy HP this was the intention. With the 2-3 extra forbidden chakras (again RNG dependent) every 90 seconds MNK is actually stronger than NIN at least on paper.

[EbonySeraphim]

I'm not sure what you have seen, but I'm pretty sure MNK does around the same as ninja without BH (RNG dependent because lolmnk) and from the SSS dummy HP this was the intention. With the 2-3 extra forbidden chakras (again RNG dependent) every 90 seconds MNK is actually stronger than NIN at least on paper.

Doesn't the question then become: is Brotherhood's raid DPS advantage stronger than Trick Attack? Even if you prayed to and paid off RNGesus, that answer is no. Forbidden Chakra is gated behind a 5 second cooldown on a 15 second buff to feed you Chakra's so you at most get 230 * 3~4 => 690~920 potency on a single target from it every 90 seconds. In case folks are wondering, the fourth FC would be used outside of the buff from the ones gained during it?

That was a bit more of a mind exercise, I don't think Trick Attack or Ninja need be nerfed, but there should at least be parity.

[MiruWest]

Doesn't the question then become: is Brotherhood's raid DPS advantage stronger than Trick Attack? Even if you prayed to and paid off RNGesus, that answer is no. Forbidden Chakra is gated behind a 5 second cooldown on a 15 second buff to feed you Chakra's so you at most get 230 * 3~4 => 690~920 potency on a single target from it every 90 seconds. In case folks are wondering, the fourth FC would be used outside of the buff from the ones gained during it?

That was a bit more of a mind exercise, I don't think Trick Attack or Ninja need be nerfed, but there should at least be parity.

MNK does do more damage than NIN. MNK is sitting around 4.4k to 4.5k potential while NIN is around 4.1k to 4.2k barely. Why are people making it seem MNK is so bad? Oh wait because people will be sheep....

[EbonySeraphim]

MNK does do more damage than NIN. MNK is sitting around 4.4k to 4.5k potential while NIN is around 4.1k to 4.2k barely. Why are people making it seem MNK is so bad? Oh wait because people will be sheep....

Did you just pull a Monk versus Ninja comparison when between those two jobs Ninja has usually always been the preferred raid member despite it being known that MNK has a higher personal DPS? We know where that comparison goes and the issue now is not what was it was yesterday! That means something *else* changed and it wasn't between Ninja and Monk. If you don't get that, then perhaps you need to take leave of this thread!