SAM out classing all other DPS

[Lildragora]

It's pretty stupid how we don't have a PTR. World of Warcraft, Final Fantasy XI and the Elder Scrolls Online all had them. They're invaluable for giving feedback outside of internal testing.

That's crazy! Who would ever want to test major changes to a game they have invested hundreds to thousands of hours and hundreds of dollars into while giving feedback? Who cares about community? Blasphemy!

/sarcasm

[Rheumasalbe]

Overall, I would say good points have been brought forth by both sides. Me personally, I am leaning towards "let's wait and see" for now after the points made since we don't have the "full" expansion pack yet (i.e. 24 man raid etc.).

One thing I want to say though is that people say "Monk has raid utility" which I, as a Monk main, want to sort of debunk. Sure, we have brotherhood, but it's only 5% of physical damage, meaning that how much utility it brings heavily relies on party comp (though with the current trend of SAM mains exploding, it's almost guaranteed that you have another melee with you in random groups at all times in 8-man groups).

Monk synergy however is a lot better due to the Deep Meditation crit trait (50% chance that a weapon skill crit will stack one Chakra): give us DRG's and BRD/MCH's crit buffs in addition to our own, it sounds pretty friggin great. However, this synergy is mostly one-sided, since it's only other classes giving us bonus dps, just like Brotherhood is just a trade-off ("I give you damage, you give me Chakras").

Don't get me wrong, I am not complaining about Monk (besides Tackle Mastery and Tornadokick, which are enigmas). My point is that people shouldn't say Monk has good utility now, because it's not universal like DRG or NIN.

Also, it has hardly ever been said before, but with the introduction of role actions, most survival or CC skills are pulled from the same pool. Monk only has one useful CC (the Tackle) since One Ilm Punch is garbage (bc it's right in the middle of your combo and thus rarely ready when you want it to be without losing a lot of DPS); and we don't have a self-heal that other melees don't (Bloodbath and Second Wind). So the only aspect where Monk excel when it comes to self-preservation is the defensive stance, which only they have. But my point still stands that SAM is the glass cannon people make it out to be. It probably eats less damage than casters, and has almost the same self-preservation skills as other melees. And since it's not as heavily reliant on positionals as others, especially Monks and I guess DRG maybe, they have higher choice in mobility.

Not saying that SAM should be nerfed or anything. As I said, I'm gonna wait and see. But still, don't make SAM out to be a glass cannon when it is really not. And don't say Monk has as much utility as other melees, because it is not so. Mantra is cool and all and may save some lives, but compared to other classes (and melees besides SAM), it's not a point to brag about.

EDIT: I just realized that SAM gains a(nother) self-heal at lv 58. I'm not gonna say that it's a useful skill or not since my SAM is lv 57, so I am not knowledgeable about it at all. Point is: SAM is self-contained, yes. Glass cannon? Not so much.

[Shiroe]

Are Sam and Blm closer to each other than Mnk and Blm were in 3.0? Like a Blm just needs a little proc lucky to equal or surpass a Sam, while in 3.0 a Blm needed a LOT of proc luck to surpass a Mnk.

Sam might still seem in raids stronger due to other buffs he receives, like embolden (rdm), dragon sight (drg), brotherhood (mnk). Since those favour melee or physical dps, besides if ifrit (smn) or balances are used too. If taking those buffs into account and NOT using them on a Sam, are Blm possibly the strongest dps, when a little provide lucky?

Would actually make sense, since there are less buff chances for Blm, making it actually a tick stinger with some proc luck and good usage of them.

[Sunako]

Are Sam and Blm closer to each other than Mnk and Blm were in 3.0? Like a Blm just needs a little proc lucky to equal or surpass a Sam, while in 3.0 a Blm needed a LOT of proc luck to surpass a Mnk.

Sam might still seem in raids stronger due to other buffs he receives, like embolden (rdm), dragon sight (drg), brotherhood (mnk). Since those favour melee or physical dps, besides if ifrit (smn) or balances are used too. If taking those buffs into account and NOT using them on a Sam, are Blm possibly the strongest dps, when a little provide lucky?

Would actually make sense, since there are less buff chances for Blm, making it actually a tick stinger with some proc luck and good usage of them.

In 3.0 battle voice foe also affect lot blm dps, not sure can casters compete against melees without that.

[PK_THUNER]

I saw a pic of a Sam doing over 40,000 dmg with one hit.

[Selova]

Well As of 69th they are not "blowing the doors of RDM".

I was able to get some parces with a SAM who knew what he was doing... in the similar gear.

This one was able to beat me... by about 80 dps which was very slight.

I ended up with 34% he ended up with 35%... so no they're very close as of 69th level as well.

I have no idea why you are using pre-70 parses with a really low sample count to boot as a comparison of which job parses higher. Pre max level parses hold no weight and adding to the fact that you're making comparisons while not having access to the entire jobs kit. It literally does not matter until you're max level. You aren't going to parse higher than a SAM unless you outgear him or the SAM is terrible, end of story.

[Neela]

You aren't going to parse higher than a SAM unless you outgear him or the SAM is terrible, end of story.

Different cls same bullshit - don't even try to get in a realistic discussion with him. He changed his opinion about best dps cls like underwear. Coming as HW smn, moved to Blm now Rdm. Actually his understanding of theorycrafting and gameplay is just bad. Claiming Blms are just powerful on paper but not in instances or even trying to convince people that his Rdm outdamages Sams on mid-lvl shows me that nothing has changed in his understanding how things work. Sam > Rdm fact.

[Niyuka]

Everyone needs to realize we are always talking about a team of 4-5 DPS. Not everyone is competing for every spot. SAM has the highest built-in DPS, but this is a good thing for the supporter DPS classes with strong buffs, because SAMs are the best target for those buffs, the biggest force multipliers. So a DRG with a SAM is, for example, a better combo than a DRG with a MCH because the added DPS by the dragoons buffs are just better.

And so on. Basically, SAM fits in a specific spot in setups as the "golden child" DPS that you put your buffs on, but there is really only ONE such spot, and its existence is due to the fact that other DPS can buff the golden child so well.

[Psycofang]

I saw a pic of a Sam doing over 40,000 dmg with one hit.

Most likely a maxed out midare setsuga DH crit.

Foul can crit for 30k so its not out there.

[Shiroe]

I saw a pic of a Sam doing over 40,000 dmg with one hit.

That was s buffed Sam. Sam hit the hardest, but have see Blm do multiple 20'-25k hits in a row, but also only when buffed.