SAM out classing all other DPS

[Creativity]

You are aware that SAM is capable of doing 4.6k DPS SOLO. Right? That means without help from anyone else.

You're worried about that but how many people in this game will pump out those numbers.

[Leonus]

Sam and not have to be the highest DPS, by a fair margin. There really isn't much to debate, they bring the least utility for a group so their utility has to be that when they are played right then you can not touch their individual numbers before raid wide buffs are taken into account.

Any extra damage they generate isn't really theirs.

You are aware that SAM is capable of doing 4.6k DPS SOLO. Right? That means without help from anyone else.

Your point? Let's say those are cherry picked parses. Kaiten midare setsuga can crit for 41k damage, is that reliable? No, not at these current ilvls.

[Shiroe]

When brd used to do the lowest DPS on 2.0, it was due to his massive support, but a brd could still atain good dps in fights involving massive movement and with a little help from drg. Now brd and mch are way too off? that difference can't be attained with a drg piercing buff. Besides are Drg still mandatory for ranged dps? And any buff Sam gets will push his numbers even higher, and Sam will hog all the buffs.

Atm the balancing is off. Sam (and Blm aoe) damage are just too high. Besides so many ex-mch, ex-drg, ex-mnks flocking over too Sam. If it weren't for Bahamas summon, even more Smn would now flock over to Blm.

Hasn't SE learnt a thing or two from making anything too OP? Looking at balances, Drg 3.X Mch 3.4 etc.

Maybe Mnk can keep up in 8 man raids with multiple melee in the comp, but seeing how far behind the other dps are, SE over did it with Sam. Just like with Nin at its launch.

[Leonus]

Hasn't SE learnt a thing or two from making anything too OP? Looking at balances, Drg 3.X Mch 3.4 etc.

Maybe Mnk can keep up in 8 man raids with multiple melee in the comp, but seeing how far behind the other dps are, SE over did it with Sam. Just like with Nin at its launch.

When Sam gets the buffs, those are not his extra numbers, the show up on his parse, but they are not his. I'd say SE put Blm and Sam exactly where they needed to be. Right at the top.

[Nominous]

I agree things have gotten wonky, but there's always going to be a best damage dealer, and worst damage dealer. A best support and worst support. Unless we want the game to be homogenized, which it's already approaching (with Dragon Sight, Brotherhood, Embolden, and Devotion), it will have to have some variance.

But anyways, BRD was low DPS and high support. What's the inverse of low DPS and high support?

High DPS and low support. Except SAM has NO support. There's ALWAYS a reason to bring a DPS that has some form of support. Think critically, and really say what you'd give SAM to compete against literally any other DPS if it doesn't have high numbers? Why would you bring them?

[Shortie]

Problem right now is that SAM is a little too strong. Every country forums are up in arms about it. Danger with that, is its making other classes obselete lol.

Sam is parsing like 20% higher than other DPS (Median Average), and about 30% above support DPS (MCH/BRD). As far as community is concerned, utility doesnt make up for that massive DPS.

I mean.. fastest Sasuno/EX I have seen was 4 SAM DPS.. and it was way faster. Phases were even pushed.. utility be damned.

That being said, everything is wonky at this point of the expansion. We need to see how things work out. For all we know, SAM may scale like crap. But I think its waaay to early to call for nerfs.


The only problem I have is MCH being crap (horrid utility compared to BRD/NIN and less DPS), and SAM is literally making DRG/MNK obelete.

SE cant anticipate everything in an expansion, but one thing I know, is they are pretty good at balancing numbers, even if the average player doesnt understand it.

[Carstien]

You don't get 450 dps out of a 4500 dps player with trick attack though, you only get that damage in 10 second intervals. That isn't how you calculate it from end of fight dps. Disembowel on the other hand is a straight increase of 190 dps to those MCH numbers. Now add in 5% increase for every job for 30 seconds every 2 minutes, that's a 25% uptime. Add that to MCH numbers. Now take into account that they never ever need to stop attacking, doing any mechanics whatsoever, they have huge range and can freely dps on the go. On top of that they have a good amount of non damage utility to add to any group, TP, MP, damage reduction and their own versions of feint and addle.

In a vacuum, they look weak, put them in a group before making judgements, that's all anybody should be doing, because a vacuum has negatives and positives and is no way to judge viability of any job.

[Shortie]

For all current content I have, several times.
Its not worth it as stated in my previous post.

And my point was not overall fights DPS, but value of party buffs per class. Given that your previous point was that all classes share the same value from party buffs.

And MCH (since that is your example), has horrid utility. TP regen not needed now since the most TP intensive classes had TP reduction and all melee dps use Goad, less +damage% than NIN/RDM/DRG and SAM also have have damage reduction ability (Feint).

I think your main point is mobilty, which I agree is a selling point for a MCH. But SAM is no slouch with mobility. They have a disengage and gap closer as well, so they have decent uptime on a boss.
That and MCH is way harder to play than SAM, with less rewards. MCH has to be the most punishing class in the game, since when they overheat... without Barrel Stabilizer ready (2 minute cooldown), it can actually be a DPS loss.

[EdwinLi]

As for me.....


Balancing and stuff is most likely going to happen to all Jobs once we hit 4.X timeframe anyways and a lot of consideration will be taken in from the Job's Utility access, current dps, and how it is handled in content.

My best guess is that the other Jobs may get a buff while SAM gets no buff since it is already in a position to handle the current content.

[Sam26]

I'm more concerned about the caster vs melee topic now than SAM doing more dps than the other jobs.

I believe that SAM and BLM should be the Top dps since they don't provide any dps utility to the group but I don't know how to feel about RDM/SMN beeing above MNK/NIN/DRG in single target dps.
They both provide good group utility / don't lose much dps compared to a BLM when they have to move and also have better Aoe/Multitarget dmg (atleast smn, don't know about rdm yet).
Since they are ranged,they also don't have to worry about positionals to do dmg.
I'm worried that melees might lose their niche if caster/range dds become better than them in any situation like it happened in the past in WoW ._.

I believe that the NIN dps was parsed with including TA in the rota, so MNK's dps should be higher than NIN's dps if you subtract the dmg added to the NIN by TA.

It's to early to jump to conclusions though before we see the new raid content /know the stat weights for our jobs.