SAM out classing all other DPS

[LordMaitreya]

If it does get calmed down it's going to be awhile. We need metrics from Omega first.

When ninja was released how long was it until it was calmed down?

[Shiroe]

Yeaaa no. SAM walks all over RDM 314 lvl 70.

The SAM who think they aren\\\\\\'t too strong right now sound exactly like NINs did in 2.4. There is in no possible way you can think it is okay to do 25% more damage than the lowest DPS in the game..

I agree

Sam and Blm are buff a bit too much. Atleast Blm loses alot of dps in fights with many mechanics and movement. Or the other dps classes have been too nerfed too much.

And Sam will be getting all the paty buffs too, like balances, dragoon buffs.. and there are other physical buffs too. Imo there shouldn\\\\\\'t be such a big gap between the dps. The contributing dps effects of each dps should be like a "nice to have" bonus bit not something "game changer" like the balance has become.

But Ninja got nerfed too soon after release, expect something similar for Sam and possibly Blm.

[Shiroe]

The buffs like the drg buffs, BL and piercing, in the past where too strong, they should be more minor in a "nice to have" way and but "most wanted" manor. Drg were overused in most parties. At least now more dps have buffs to contribute. But so many leaving Mch and other jobs for the promised dps-beast Samurai.

In case of lowering the party buffs, the personal dps of most dps should be increased. So atleast in some fights, depending on mechanics or such, they can still compete with Sam.

[Nominous]

The buffs like the drg buffs, BL and piercing, in the past where too strong, they should be more minor in a "nice to have" way and but "most wanted" manor. Drg were overused in most parties. At least now more dps have buffs to contribute. But so many leaving Mch and other jobs for the promised dps-beast Samurai.

In case of lowering the party buffs, the personal dps of most dps should be increased. So atleast in some fights, depending on mechanics or such, they can still compete with Sam.

DRG weren't overused, it was just flat out stronger than MNK due to raid DPS increases. MNK was higher DPS than DRG in 3.xx, not by a large margin though (5-10% maybe). Guess what? 5-10% stronger was not enough for MNK to win against DRG, when Disembowel buffed BRD and MCH DPS, and Battle Litany buffed everyone. 10% stronger than NIN meant nothing when NIN offered TA.

This is what I'm talking about. Jobs CAN compete with SAM, and ARE. If you aren't seeing it, you're just not looking hard enough. Let's break it down. Pretty much every DPS in this game (other than BLM and SAM now) offer at least one of two (or both) forms of support to a party. Either Physical Damage Support or General Support (things like Smoke Bomb/Mantra). If we break it down further, what does every DPS bring?

MCH- Damage buffs
BRD- HP/MP buffs, Damage buffs
NIN- Damage buffs, Enmity manipulation (which indirectly increases Tank DPS by allowing more DPS stance/combos)
MNK- Damage buffs, Mantra
DRG- Damage buffs, More damage buffs
SMN- Damage buffs, Res
RDM- Damage buffs, Healing, Res
SAM- Nothing.
BLM- Nothing.

Why are WHM afraid of not being brought to raid? Not because they can't do their Job. They certainly fulfill the healing role. It's because they don't bring anything extra to the table (also they don't like lillies). Why were MNK not brought to raid last expansion? They brought nothing extra to the party (people didn't even care that it had mantra). So why do you think, when we've already seen how this has played out with MNK (and nobody cared about the utility OR raw DPS of MNK), that SAM will be fine when put in the same (but worse) situation?

Also, again, you can not argue that SAM is too powerful when you have RDM who bring 3 unique things as a DPS (AND good DPS).

[Shiroe]

It's not good, when there such OP elements. Sam's single-target damage, Blm's aoe damage, Ast's balance. In the past Drgs buffs, Mch buffs.

Mnk used to be top dps, but not by such a large margin. And there were fights, where a Nin or Drg could keep up, due to many phase changes or bad positionals in a fight.

[Nominous]

It's not good, when there such OP elements. Sam's single-target damage, Blm's aoe damage, Ast's balance. In the past Drgs buffs, Mch buffs.

Mnk used to be top dps, but not by such a large margin. And there were fights, where a Nin or Drg could keep up, due to many phase changes or bad positionals in a fight.

Yeah, and you know what happened to MNK in 3.xx? Are you reading? Have you been paying attention to how people felt about MNK in the last patch cycle? Lol. People could keep up with MNK, which is precisely why nobody cared about bringing MNK. Like, ever.

[Arkenne]

Yeah, and you know what happened to MNK in 3.xx?

Err... they are agreeing to your point...

[Nexxus]

Yes SAM is powerfull and gain more power with group utilities that are bring to him, but the DPS that is shown as his own is in fact (part of it) the dps acquired from other.


So if my DPS is at 4000, it means that 100 of it belong to the Ninja debuff, or/and 100+ of it to the astologian card buff, or 100+ of it to the "insert another job utility here".

Stop saying it has an harder, better, faster, stronger DPS where it fact, most of it belong to others.

And no, the rotation cycle is not as simple as you may think, of course there is one, but unlike nin (i can tell for nin, as i have it leveled to 67, and sam to 70), their rotation (nin) will be the same, where as a sam, it'll depend on your Sen's active, your own buff actif, and your kenki bar.

I often make mistake and have one of my buff wear off before i could reapplied. Very often my rotation change, because of my Sen active, i have to overthink of what i'll be using, and when... or when meyko sishui is active but i have already one Sen active, but one of my buff gonna disapear, if it worhtwhile to use it or keep it a little while.

There's so much factor to take into consideration that make sam more difficult to play that you may think.


Overall, if you gathering the total DPS of your party's member with and w/out sam, it's probably gonna be the same ~

[Ephier]

Yes SAM is powerfull and gain more power with group utilities that are bring to him, but the DPS that is shown as his own is in fact (part of it) the dps acquired from other.

So if my DPS is at 4000, it means that 100 of it belong to the Ninja debuff, or/and 100+ of it to the astologian card buff, or 100+ of it to the "insert another job utility here".

Stop saying it has an harder, better, faster, stronger DPS where it fact, most of it belong to others.

And no, the rotation cycle is not as simple as you may think, of course there is one, but unlike nin (i can tell for nin, as i have it leveled to 67, and sam to 70), their rotation (nin) will be the same, where as a sam, it'll depend on your Sen's active, your own buff actif, and your kenki bar.

I often make mistake and have one of my buff wear off before i could reapplied. Very often my rotation change, because of my Sen active, i have to overthink of what i'll be using, and when... or when meyko sishui is active but i have already one Sen active, but one of my buff gonna disapear, if it worhtwhile to use it or keep it a little while.

There's so much factor to take into consideration that make sam more difficult to play that you may think.


Overall, if you gathering the total DPS of your party's member with and w/out sam, it's probably gonna be the same ~

You are aware that SAM is capable of doing 4.6k DPS SOLO. Right? That means without help from anyone else.

[Nexxus]

Show me where you saw that (in dungeon i mean and solo).
On a normal mob it's probably normal as they can deal pretty decent damage solo, because their higher skill isn't depending on placement (front, back, rear) but just a casting time that can be interrupt.

Also, i saw a lot of people having a full ilvl310 with Materia V melded, probably your sam you saw was full Melded VI. (the gap dmg on normal mob become more potent).