Clemency a bit OP?

[eagledorf]

In all seriousness, because Clemency does significant damage to your DPS and reduces your ability to use Sheltron in Shield Oath I think it's fine that it's more powerful than Equilibrium.

Keep in mind, DRK can also spam a self-heal now for 20% of HP with The Blackest Knight. Shields are effectively self-heals (anybody remember self-healing with Stoneskin while the SMN raised the healer?) and while TBK is weaker than Clemency as a heal, it's mitigation and self-heal in one and does very minimal damage to your DPS (like 10 potency loss) so it's more versatile than Clemency. TBK is also strongest when used on yourself and weakest when used on a party member while Clemency is the opposite. In fact, if Clemency wasn't significantly stronger than DRK self-healing, DRK would be way overpowered.

Right now PLD looks like they're the best at a variety of things, but to do one thing they must lose the ability to do another (say you want to DPS hard, now you can't heal or if you want to mitigate your next tank buster you can't shield a party member anymore). DRK is the best at AoE and while they're weaker than PLD in utility, they're more flexible in that they can pop TBK and keep rolling. WAR is sort of middle of the road in that IB is a 150 potency loss from Fell Cleave and they have strong single-target and AoE DPS, but probably not top-tier at either anymore.

There will be a serious problem with balance if SE designs content poorly. For example, if you need LOTS of mitigation of tank busters DRK will be trash. If you need LOTS of single target DPS DRK will be trash. If you need LOTS of AoE PLD will be trash. If you need lots of single target party member shielding (would this ever happen?) WAR would be trash. If SE makes content so that the demands on the tanks are varied the tanks should be better balanced.

I suspect if there's no AoE PLD will be somewhat overpowered and if there's lots of AoE PLD will be somewhat under-powered and visa-versa for DRK, but hopefully SE isn't so stupid as to make it as bad as HW for two expansions in a row. I suspect this patch the real trash-tier balance is going to be the healers...

[Reynhart]

Shields are effectively self-heals

No, they're not, because you can't overshield like you can overcure, and you can't shield to trigger HP-based effect.
And TBN is certainly not self-heal and mitigation in one.

[Kosmos992k]

I'm not certain about whether it's OP. For me Clemency is a dual purpose skill, in solo content it's point is obvious - self heal. In group content, especially for OT, I think it's more valuable as an "Oh Crap" heal for the MT (or self). Alernately, the OT can keep half an eye out for trouble and do something positive if things are fraught and health is low - say if a healer is down.

Combined with Divine veil, Cover and Intervention, I think it's a part of the Paladin's party defense toolbox rather than straight self heal. I mean obviously you get 50% of the heal yourself when you use Clemency on others, but given the MP cost, GCD loss and combo interruption, it's not like you're there to be a healer, it's just part of the toolset. If you spam it too often you hurt your DPS, a lesson I learned when a friend commented during HW content at how often I use clemency.

The fact that it takes away from the DPS counterbalances the power and spamability of Clemency IMHO.

[eagledorf]

No, they're not, because you can't overshield like you can overcure

Um, doesn't that mean shields are superior to heals of the same potency? Overheal is all wasted, but a shield is never wasted. The only time a shield is a problem is when they don't stack like Adlo and Nocturnal Aspected Benefic.

Player performance trackers literally count shields as heals. The only time a shield isn't equivalent or superior to a heal is it you don't take damage for its duration and it wears off.

you can't shield to trigger HP-based effect

You mean the thing only Paladin or Warrior has so it doesn't matter of DRK can trigger it or not? What point are you trying to even make by saying this?

TBN is certainly not self-heal and mitigation

What is Thrill of Battle? What is the shield part of Aldoquium? The Blackest Knight is the same.

[Reynhart]

Um, doesn't that mean shields are superior to heals of the same potency?

In a sense, yes, they are. But then you need to consider the MP cost, the recast, the effect of Convalescence, etc...

You mean the thing only Paladin or Warrior has so it doesn't matter of DRK can trigger it or not? What point are you trying to even make by saying this?

Spamming TBN can not ease the burden of Walking Dead. Nor does it have any direct effect on a Doom debuff like the one in Wanderer's Palace Hard.

What is Thrill of Battle? What is the shield part of Aldoquium? The Blackest Knight is the same.

Thrill Of Battle heals you and increases your max HP, Adloqium heals and puts a shield on you. Blackest Night only puts a shield, like Stoneskin did.

[cold52]

tbk isnt a heal or supiror to it, its because tbk only lasts for 5 seconds while actual healing isnt on the clock

this means unless an enemy is dealing over the 20% within that 5sec window it isnt getting full value while pld could heal over 20% of his own hp and have that hp when he needs to take the damage, this also in turn saves the healers time to heal and allows them to do more dmg instead

honestly not sure why drk didnt get a proper self heal this expansion, tbk is nice but it certainly isnt a heal, just more mitigation.