Thread: Dragoons... how do you feel post 4.0?

Originally Posted by Sparhwk

DS doesn't like to double weave with a macro, you lose time manually targeting.
Switch first Jump and Gerk. You can double weave Gerk+Mirage Dive. As well as double weave Mirage+LS.

Nope.

You can double weave DS easily since you shouldn't really be using it in a macro anyway. Manual targeting (especially on controller) is super easy lol.

Now double weaving mirage dive is gonna clip the hell out of your rotation. Due to having a longer CD GSK should be used before jump in the opener as when it comes to your first LotD, everything fits nicely. It should be: Jump > Mirage dive > Spineshatter > GSK > whatever you want to do with nastrond (some people wait for b4b but I don't because if you wait for b4b in the first LotD you lose the ability to hit 2 nastronds in the 2nd LotD. If you don't wait you're still going to hit the last 2 nastronds in your first LotD with b4b anyway.)

Originally Posted by HoLoFoNo

Nope.

You can double weave DS easily since you shouldn't really be using it in a macro anyway. Manual targeting (especially on controller) is super easy lol.
Now double weaving mirage dive is gonna clip the hell out of your rotation. Due to having a longer CD GSK should be used before jump in the opener as when it comes to your first LotD, everything fits nicely. It should be: Jump > Mirage dive > Spineshatter > GSK > whatever you want to do with nastrond (some people wait for b4b but I don't because if you wait for b4b in the first LotD you lose the ability to hit 2 nastronds in the 2nd LotD. If you don't wait you're still going to hit the last 2 nastronds in your first LotD with b4b anyway.)

Manual targeting is still slower than a proper macro. Mirage Dive can double weave with a couple things. GSK first then Dive works. As does any order of LS+MD. GSK should be eailer, it has the longer CD in the overall.

Done properly activating into LotD should look like HT>BFB>GSK>NAS>I>MD you should of sat on.

Also the 2nd LotD doesn't happen with a proper buff lineup. Both primals have long pauses that will flat out kill your timer. On Susano you can extend BoTD to use LotD on the giant sword phase but you either but lose damaege from either waiting to get the timer up or without the piercing debuff.

On lakshmi you'll of just gone into add phase when ready to do the 2nd LotD and then into a meter drop from her long ass cinematic. Then all her divine aoe skills will mess up your timing or flat out drop your BotD if unlucky.

There's no reason to not save BFB for a 3x Nastrod in the early fight because there's far too many times you won't get a line up the rest of the fight.

You don't double weave mirage dive, that's actually not possible without a little clipping, and what did we learn with time? Clipping is bad.

There's probably a way to get Dragon sight in a macro that woulk still allow you to double weave it but anyway it's easy af to click on someone > DS > get back on the boss without losing anything but maybe an auto-attack at best.
Still, macros get their own disadventage, you can't really adapt, I'm clearly more comfortable with the freedom to use it on any party member. And ya I'm pretty sure I'm way faster than a macro would be.

For susano there's no real use of Lotd during sword phase, ya it might go a lil bit faster but it will mostly depends on your group dps and the time at which he's gonna go into that phase, if yo take up to 1:30 before making the sword phase happen you better delay GK to trigger Lotd as soon as possible before he leaves so you can get 2 Nastronds on the actual boss instead of the sword, same for B4B using it right when its up to get 10sc on the boss. Once you've done that you'll just have to build Lotd again on the sword and everything will lines up again so you can do an opener with Lotd right when Susano is back.

For lakshmi it doesnt really matters, you'll do just as you do on susano, try to get the most out of it on the boss then use it on the adds.
For the rest of the fight, it's easy af, if you can't keep everything during these few mechanics then you probably need to train more, nothing complicated here.


As for B4B ligning up with Lotd, it happens all the time (special mechanics aside), If it doesnt, you must be doing something wrong.
You should be able to get up to 1 GK - 2 Nastrond - 2 Mirage dive - 1 jump per B4B.

Originally Posted by Sparhwk

1000 char

Then you are doing your LotD management wrong in Lakshimi. You should get your 2nd LotD during the 2nd prey marker (during chalalaladingdong) and it should be finished before adds phase. You should have 2 eyes going into adds phase and if you hold this GSK you will be able to go into LotD for the 3rd time in the fight (depending on group, this means 1 or 2 nastronds).


If she is causing your BotD to drop outside her limit break again you are managing it incorrectly. Divine doubt only lasts 8 seconds or so when Vriled so you really shouldn't be losing BotD there. Nothing else restricts your ability to attack (unless you are scared of the black bubble for whatever reason, and even then that is only about 8 seconds). The point of optimising your rotation during a fight is to ensure that you can have the maximum uptime on whatever you need to have it on. If you are 'unlucky' and lose BotD that means that you haven't optimised the fight properly.

For susano it depends on group. He pushes at 1:33 or 75% so if its the former, you should get 2 piercing nastronds off anyway and you will lose the LotD when hes getting ready to slam the sword. If its the latter then you would hold GSK so you get the LotD during the first sword. That being said if you are 5th on emnity, you will get rocked and that is the only case where I can see you losing BotD involuntarily during that fight.

Also you should NEVER be doing anything more than a double weave, so your BFB>GSK>NAS is bad and causes clipping. I'd wager that you are using GSK too late into your opener which is causing you to gave later LotDs. It should be used after your buffs but before jump. Depending on whether its potted or not it should be after Disembowel (no pot) or Chaos thrust (with pot).

Personally, and I know this may be an unpopular opinion, but I don't see why everyone thinks Heavensward Dragoon was so much more difficult than this new version.

The only thing difficult about HW was proper geirskogul timings, and I never found the rng nature of Fang/Wheel to be problematic. I'm honestly finding the base rotation harder to execute in SB due to the fang/wheel change meaning you have to hit more directional hits back to back after every combo. Not that that in and of itself is hard mind you, just that I feel it's more difficult to execute compared to our base rotation in HW.

And sure, BotD is more forgiving now and is basically impossible to lose while in combat, but we've traded BotD management for LotD and Eye management instead, giving even more emphasis on our jumps usage and other ogcd combat priority. I find myself having to carefully consider whether to hold skills or blow them more often in 4.0 than 3.0 in order to make things line up properly with cd's and LotD/Nastrond more so than before.

Of course this could be a side effect of the 4.0 changes still being "new" and my mind still needs time for everything to mold in place and become second nature, and the difficulty could also be a side effect or the job just feeling a bit more fumbly, but that's currently how I feel about it at the moment. Obviously this is just my opinion and your mileage may vary. The skill floor is undeniably lower, but I don't feel like the skill ceiling has lowered any at all.

I think 960 aoe potency is not a great enough reward for the hassle. I'd much rather have larger single target burst while in LotD