Summoner Over-Nered (and A few other Problems)

[Alleo]

Its interesting to see the numbers and I agree that hopefully we will get buffed but even if we did the most DPS I still would be annoyed at the changes simply because it does not feel fun to play this job..and clunky. I am not sure how its possible that you can make a job easier to play on the one side (thus way more boring) and yet at the same time make it way more punishing than other jobs..Did nobody tested it through all the content? I really get the feeling like they only tested this on a dummy..otherwise they should have noticed how clunky a lot of skills and egis feel..

[Ariomi]

Watched the newest live letter.

I find it discouraging that Summoner's aren't getting anything except the ability to shrink Bahamut. Black Mages had several of their cast times shortened, meaning Black Mages will outperform Summoner's even more now.

About ready to give up on the Class entirely. It's just obsolete.

Meanwhile Machinist is getting some nice buffs. Base damage buff increase, Turrets dealing more damage and heat gauge more user friendly.

No Buffs to Physic, No word of Sustain, But Scholars exclusively Get Miasma 2

[Alleo]

I "loved" the answer about the removing of sustain..like did they truly forget that we have a tank egi? Or that Ifrit is in meele range? Do they forget that solo instances exists? Or just simply PotD? I have no words left..

[TaranTatsuuchi]

I "loved" the answer about the removing of sustain..like did they truly forget that we have a tank egi? Or that Ifrit is in meele range? Do they forget that solo instances exists? Or just simply PotD? I have no words left..

hmm....

Now I want to know what they said...

[Alleo]

Q11. Sustain was very useful in some content. I would like to know why this was removed.
A11. We had it set so that pets would take reduced damage from enemies and we figured it wouldn’t be an issue as long as players don’t place the pets directly in front of the enemy. However, there were some players that used it quite a lot, so we would like to discuss some more with the dev. team.

Thats why I have no words left..dont place the pets directly in front of the enemy..where should we put tank egi? Also they do cleave attacks that will hit Ifrit and the pets themselves are reaction way to slow if one wants to move them out of stuff..Also reduced damage? Garuda egi was never nearly one shotted in ARR or HW..yet that one enemy in the story dungeon was taking her out with a cleave. >_>

And they even said that some players used it a lot..why keep physik that is so useless but take sustain away that is even used?

[Sylvina]

I find it discouraging that Summoner's aren't getting anything except the ability to shrink Bahamut.

I am -Never- going to shrink bahamut. Bahamut is awesome in his full sized glory thank you very much.

[Neophyte]

Q11. Sustain was very useful in some content. I would like to know why this was removed.
A11. We had it set so that pets would take reduced damage from enemies and we figured it wouldn’t be an issue as long as players don’t place the pets directly in front of the enemy. However, there were some players that used it quite a lot, so we would like to discuss some more with the dev. team.

Thats why I have no words left..dont place the pets directly in front of the enemy..where should we put tank egi? Also they do cleave attacks that will hit Ifrit and the pets themselves are reaction way to slow if one wants to move them out of stuff..Also reduced damage? Garuda egi was never nearly one shotted in ARR or HW..yet that one enemy in the story dungeon was taking her out with a cleave. >_>

And they even said that some players used it a lot..why keep physik that is so useless but take sustain away that is even used?

Because you can't get Physik out of Arcanist.

The only way to remove Physik from SMN, but leaving it on SCH, would be to make it the first job ability of SCH (at level 30).

But what does a SCH do, when he get's unsynched to below level 30?
Just only rely on fairy (not that this is not possible)? I mean, ok, but taking a healer the ability to heal (although only low-level) as a trade-off so SMN can tank again (which might be not intended to be a big thing anymore, because we are a dps job and not a weak one).

I mean, you want the best solo or best non-tank group or even (when a bit outgeared) the best utility at all, being able to tank significantly as a dps role? Then deal with having the lowest dps of all jobs, around MCH's current damage. Period.

[Feifer]

From what I've noticed playing Summoner now, is that is it simply too punishing once you make a mistake.
If you accidentally click Bane or Fester without DoTs, you are set back on your entire combo from Dreadwyrm to Bahamut by 60 seconds waiting for Aetherflow to come off CD.
An easily QoL change is to make it so that you gain Aetherflow is given regardless of whether you have DoTs on them or not.
Having no damage done/Misusing the ability to its full potential should be the punishment.

Devotion is also very uncontrollable.
It is counterproductive to move your Ifrit/Garuda to a certain party member, using the ability, and expected to go through your rotation smoothly.
It simply cannot be done effectively. You lose out on your potential for damage, and feels overly complicated for simply no reason.
There are Role abilities that are programmed to be used much better than this. This should be changed to be more usable.

[Ametrine]

I'm curious if that Aetherflow boosting trait SCH is getting will go to SMN, too.

I'm not sure how much it would aid them compared to the help it will give SCH, except maybe decrease the time between Bahamuts a bit and possibly lessen the overall punishment for mistakes.

[Ariomi]

Because you can't get Physik out of Arcanist.

The only way to remove Physik from SMN, but leaving it on SCH, would be to make it the first job ability of SCH (at level 30).

I mean, you want the best solo or best non-tank group or even (when a bit outgeared) the best utility at all, being able to tank significantly as a dps role? Then deal with having the lowest dps of all jobs, around MCH's current damage. Period.

Uh.. Hate to break it to you. The best tank that isn't actually a tank goes to either Red Mage, or Monk. Monk can reduce the damage they take, with fists of earth/Earth's reply. Can heal themselves with bloodbath and second wind. Red Mages can heal themselves with Vercure and until they buffed the enmity on tanks, Red Mages tanked a lot of the early dungeons they were in just from their high burst.

Did you know that most classes in this game have a way to reduce the damage they take, or have a substantial self heal.
Here's an example. Ninja's - Shade Shift. Monk's Fist of earth/Earth's Reply. Samurai - Third Eye. Black Mages Manaward -shields all damage upto 30% of the black mage's total health.

There's only a single class in the game that doesn't have a self heal over 400 Potency, or a way to mitigate damage for themselves.
Can you guess what that class is? Summoner. You can argue hey Summoner's have Titan Egi, but see. Titan doesn't reduce the damage the Summoner takes. Nor does he heal the summoner. Titan also disappears when you summon Bahamut. So that tank you were depending on? Gone the second Summoner actually tries to do damage. No Summoner uses Titan in raids or dungeons as he doesn't do anything. He's a solo only pet (and the weakest pet at that.) If a mechanic happens in a raid, Titan Egi is powerless to save a summoner in any way.

The best way to fix this? Give Summoner a role specific skill that turns physic into a useable heal, or make physic scale of int. Easy as that.

Oh and Summoner is objectively weak.

https://www.fflogs.com/statistics/15#boss=1036

Let me put it in perspective. Look at Monk and Ninja. Monk- High personal dps, with the ability to boost all physical raid damage by 5% and now is the only class with Mantra to help out with healing if necessary. Ninja? High dps, Innate Aggro control with 10% raid damage increase.

When you look at bard and Machinist who are the only classes lower then summoner, is because they offer more utility. Machinist and Bard can regen the entire groups Tp/Mp and can increase raid damage. Hyper charge is a 5% damage increase for thirty seconds, Foe Requiem is a 3% damage increase for around 33, then also boost the group with battle voice and crit rate for the entire fight. Dragoon which has similar numbers as a Summoner provides Battle Litany - 15% crit for 15 seconds. Piercing Debuff, and Dragon Sight.

What does Summoner offer? Ignoring everything that Red Mage also offers. (Cause Red Mage does it better)

Summoner offer's Aoe weaker then Black Mage, the lowest single target damage of all casters and only has three skills that it contributes.
Radiant Shield. 2% Physical damage increase for maximum of 24 seconds. 2% physical damage... Wow.. That's intense. I can barely handle this one. It's so powerful that if you did 1000 damage, under this buff you would do 1020. Summoner has Contagion that is 10% Magical damage increase for 15 seconds. (Should be 16 - 20 Seconds to match Dreadwyrm Trances Duration >.>) and Devotion. Devotion - one player gets a 5% increase to damage/healing. Devotion is the worst designed skill in the game, having you either move your pet to buff the person you want, (You can't just select them.) And offers no benefit to the Summoner ever. Devotion (Ironically named) goes to anyone except the summoner.
Monks can benefit from Brotherhood. Ninjas benefit from trick attack. Bards benefit from Foe req. Dragoons benefit from Dragon Sight. Summoner's don't benefit from devotion...

So let's tally up the score.
High Survivability - Nope
High Personal Dps - Nope
High Utility - Nope
High Mobility - Nope
Significant group wide dps gain? - Nope
Easy class to play - Nope

You hear Dragoon's complaining about how hard their rotation is for the damage their getting. While I totally agree with them, Summoner has it just as bad, except Summoner has nothing to offer a team. Dragoons are a dream come true for Red Mage/Bard/Mch with Crit buffs and damage up for everyone. You will never notice the difference of a Summoner with radiant shield/contagion/Devotion.