Summoner Over-Nered (and A few other Problems)

[Kazukiyashuo]

Are you sure? Because WHM and AST have like 3 or 4 different mana regen/reduction abilities, also they nerfed Aetherflow.

Are u sure?.I think AST has 8 ways to get mp back and WHM 13.More non sense salt about SCH plz. Cant have enough

[Kazukiyashuo]

Red mage has dual cast as well. Which vastly outperforms Summoner's rez. A red mage can cast vercure on themselves then instantly cast rez.

Summoner has to either use a swiftcast or hard rez when a red mage can do it almost instantly

Then play RDM!All i see everyday in the forums is crying about anything. You know i would like them to remove the RNG from AST, SCH can give his buff whenever he wants, i want that as well. PLZ SE

[Sylvina]

From Susano ex

Job - 50th / 75th / 95th percentile
MNK - 3207 / 3498 / 3823
NIN - 3202 / 3437 / 3694
DRG - 2958 / 3227 / 3514
SAM - 3472 / 3764 / 4167
BLM - 2823 / 3138 / 3514
SMN - 2919 / 3245 / 3554
RDM - 3193 / 3467 / 3776
BRD - 2941 / 3176 / 3472
MCH - 2885 / 3108 / 3370
PLD - 1697 / 2133 / 2624
WAR - 1819 / 2098 / 2508
DRK - 1752 / 2091 / 2500
WHM - 665 / 1106 / 1616
SCH - 951 / 1284 / 1696
AST - 581 / 868 / 1271

Summoner is fine. They could use a slight boost to push them over Red Mage but that's about it.

Way to miss the point. Summoner is NOT "fine" in all respects becuase it has a worthless pet now, called Titan Egi. this pet used to be very useful, until they removed sustain. now I won't touch SMN with a 10 foot pole till titan egi can tank once more.

[HyperSMB]

Are u sure?.I think AST has 8 ways to get mp back and WHM 13.More non sense salt about SCH plz. Cant have enough

All joking aside:

AST (2) - Ewer (Conditional as it must be pulled), Lucid Dreaming (Can extend either with Celestial Opposition)
WHM (3) - Assize, Lucid Dreaming, Thin Air (I count this because during it you can regen mana as well as spam Cure II to get lillies before popping Assize)
SCH (2-4) - Lucid Dreaming, Energy Drain (x1-x3)

The issue for SCH is using ED means you don't have a lustrate available and due to low potency on spells that is a hard one to give up but usually you can get at least one ED off per Aetherflow in an 8 man.

[Yukiko]

(..) Summoner is fine. They could use a slight boost to push them over Red Mage but that's about it.

Say that again when we do Omega (Savage) where we need every single DPS...
Can remember Alexander (Savage) where some jobs were excluded...

[LunarEmerald]

Way to miss the point. Summoner is NOT "fine" in all respects becuase it has a worthless pet now, called Titan Egi. this pet used to be very useful, until they removed sustain. now I won't touch SMN with a 10 foot pole till titan egi can tank once more.

Titan-egi has always been useless. You shouldn't be trying to solo content with it because it sucks at keeping aggro. You should always be using Ifrit or Garuda to kill stuff faster.

[Hayward]

Way to miss the point. Summoner is NOT "fine" in all respects becuase it has a worthless pet now, called Titan Egi. this pet used to be very useful, until they removed sustain. now I won't touch SMN with a 10 foot pole till titan egi can tank once more.

I miss Sustain as much as any SMN, but this goes WAY over the edge. There's an old saying that still applies: "One monkey don't stop no show". One missing ability isn't going to make me jump on any one of the new bandwagons that tryhard endgamers are hopping on because of some glorified calculator.

[Ariomi]

In the event someone dies, RDM is in one of two situations:

1)
2) You do not have dualcast up, in which case you would swiftcast rez anyway because vercure is still a ~2 second cast time and swift is a faster goto.

Just small Fyi.

Raise on summoner and Verraise on Red Mage cost the same amount of Mp and they have the same mana pool. Both spells cost 25% of their Mp.

Summoner has two options in that same scenario.
1) Swiftcast Raise. Using a 60 second cooldown to make it near instant.
2) Hard casting Rez - Swift cast is down. The summoner is stuck immobile and doing nothing else until the 7 Second cast time is over. If the summoner moves, or get's hit the spell can be interrupted

Red Mage's raise is vastly superior, needing only to be dual cast. You can even cast it while mobile via slide casting. (Casting a spell around 80% then moving last second. Basically a one second raise. Just another way Red Mage makes Summoner obsolete.)

And for the most part, Red Mage spells cost very little Compared to summoners. Red Mage's most draining spell is 600 Mana. Summoner's can spend 2400 Mp just resummoning pets, or 1440 if they use Ruin 3 outside of dreadwyrm trance.

[Ariomi]

Then play RDM!All i see everyday in the forums is crying about anything. You know i would like them to remove the RNG from AST, SCH can give his buff whenever he wants, i want that as well. PLZ SE

Your argument just isn't valid. Scholar's buff is called chain stratagem. It lasts 15 seconds and is basically 15% crit buff. It has a 2 minute cooldown.
Astro's buffs last 30 seconds at base, and while they are random have a 30 second cooldown timer. Both of these buffs do different things and have different drawbacks. You willing to have balance be a buff with a two minute cooldown that only lasts 15 seconds? (That's quite a nerf)

Red Mage's Verraise and Summoner's Raise are the same thing. The only difference is that the red mage can use it instantly after they cast another spell whenever they want. No Rng. It's just flat out better. Red Mage casts their choice of Jolt 2 Vercure and then insta rez. Both skills cost the same amount of mp, Just one is a better version of it. Sorta like how Red Mage has better damage, more utility, and higher mobility. Red Mage is literally just a better version of summoner at this point. You would be crying on the forums too, if Astro was nerfed, and Scholar got a better version of balance while making Scholar superior to Astro in every way

[Neophyte]

And if the top summoner, which is currently at 4k dps, is compared to the other classes, it's clearly lacking. You can say oh well Summoner has better Aoe, except that deathflare was nerfed, and bane was nerfed heavily. Bane wentfrom 110 potency per tick to 80 potency per tick with increased fall off damage per add. Oh and Summoner's strongest spammable Aoe (Meaning not requiring a minute, two minute or three minute* cooldown) is 30 potency.

Doesn't change the fact that an add at the right time is a 600-800 potency gain for SMN, while it's a smaller potency gain for RDM or maybe none at all (e.g. he has opportunity costs if delaying Contre-Sixt, other than a SMN delaying painflare).
Adds don't rain randomly from the sky. Usually people know when they come up.

A SMN in a A9s similar fight would do the adds almost alone without any single target dps loss (maybe 100-200 pot), while RDM and every other class has way higher costs for tossing some AoE out or are way weaker doing that.

Bahamut and DWT, as well as the usage of Painflare (i.e. "your stacks") is at least a bit flexible. As long as you don't delay the usage of aetherflow itself you can delay your oGCD rotation without too much loss.
A SMN has, without much trouble, always the big boom ready when he needs it.

_______

A SMN can adjust to such things with big dps gains liberating all 7 others players from bothering about adds, what can a RDM do? He can switch to scatter (wow) when adds are coming up and maybe can use his 200 pot cleave, but therefore lose his strongest single target spell (Verholy/-flare Needs a single target melee combo).

A fight like A1S with two targets up for 75% of the fight or big adds in A12s? Advantage for SMN (and BRD as well).

Stop looking at training dolls or just 1-2 (quite similar) fights..