Summoner Over-Nered (and A few other Problems)

[Sekkei]

I haven't hit 70 yet but I could see the impact instantly at 60. If I want to do anything solo or otherwise, I absolutely have to have my chocobo out to get back any damage SE took away. I can't keep my egis alive, can't haul Shadow Flare off the ground and move it to where the mobs were taken, I have no third dot to cast to take up seconds standing around waiting for flow. All I found myself able to do is cast Miasma, Bio, dump flare and hope the stuff isn't moved out, and spam nerfed ruin for whatever damage I can get out of that while waiting to use trance. I don't know how to explain it. Just seems like I'm doing half of the damage I used to. To learn that bane makes dots worse is disheartening. I didn't notice that since there wasn't much to tell when you're in a fate and 20 other people are hitting everything, but now that explains stuff taking longer to die solo. Stuff doesn't die efficiently for summoner anymore now, I guess lol

[Kazrah]

I can kinda understand why they tried to make what changes they did to the job. The dot changes gives SMN more mobility, more MP to play around with (like for rezzing or running around spamming Ruin 2 like an idiot), and overall ease of use starting off (which it almost didn't need, but oh well). The DR tweaks to Bane and Deathflare were the same as the ones given to every AoE with a potency over 200, especially since Bane potency with Bio 3 and Miasma 3 would be a total of 800, which is outstanding for a regular AoE. The tweak prevent Aetherflow multi-stacking could've been a technical sacrifice, but it could also have been a deliberate attempt to reign in on overly complicated openers with maybe MCH being the exception just because I don't think anyone has figured that job out yet. As a DPS though, it still works even though it might not feel like it.

There are only really two massive flaws I could notice with the job. One is that lack of Sustain, which is sort of okay when that pet dies and you have that extra MP from not having a third dot to re-summon it, but it gets far too rough in regard to solo play when Titan-egi can only take so much before it goes from nugget to pancake. The other massive flaw is what makes RDM vastly more superior to SMN: support function. Where Resurrection costs just over a quarter of a SMN's max MP and is only instant once every minute or so, Verraise costs far cheaper and is an instant-cast whenever that RDM feels like it. Where Physick is still a Mind-based relic of the past (which might be hard-coded in), Vercure is int-based, making it vastly superior not just in terms of emergency heals, but also in terms of solo gameplay.

The remedy to both of these flaws would be to make Physick Int-based like Vercure rather than Mind-based as it is currently. That way, it could provide something more suitable in case of emergency while giving something to offset the loss of Sustain, but not be anywhere near strong enough to outright replace a healer. The current remedy for now would be to solo like every other DPS job.

[Dualgunner]

There are only really two massive flaws I could notice with the job. One is that lack of Sustain, which is sort of okay when that pet dies and you have that extra MP from not having a third dot to re-summon it, but it gets far too rough in regard to solo play when Titan-egi can only take so much before it goes from nugget to pancake. The other massive flaw is what makes RDM vastly more superior to SMN: support function. Where Resurrection costs just over a quarter of a SMN's max MP and is only instant once every minute or so, Verraise costs far cheaper and is an instant-cast whenever that RDM feels like it. Where Physick is still a Mind-based relic of the past (which might be hard-coded in), Vercure is int-based, making it vastly superior not just in terms of emergency heals, but also in terms of solo gameplay.

Not gonna argue how bad SMN's support is in comparison to RDM, but "far cheaper" is 2% because Verraise costs exactly 25% of the mp pool.

[CGMidlander]

How is SCH in a bad spot? They were buffed in everything related to their actual job, and their single-target DPS is still vastly superior to the other healers.

I wouldn't be so sure about that.

WHM vs SCH
250 Potency GCD (Stone IV) vs 230 Potency (Broil II)
370 Potency DoT (Aero III) + 350 (Aero II) vs 300 (Miasma) + 350 (Bio II)
Assize 300 Potency/min vs Shadow Flare 250 Potency/min

Where things get a bit murky is when you start poking into Presence of Mind's impact, the use of Aetherflow skills, and CD reducing procs...etc. but as you can see above, WHM generally has higher potencies than SCH.

[Texa]

Are you damn kidding? A FF summoner isnt supposed to even have heal... Nor does this improve his dd role in any way. If the summoner should be able to heal then through a pet (e.g. carbuncle > "healing ruby") and nothing else.

Rydia, Garnet, Eiko, and Yuna all could heal. Yuna specifically could heal her aeons in a multitude of ways in and outside of battle. This isn't even covering the games that let you make your own skill setups or summons that healed.

[Tonkra]

Rydia, Garnet, Eiko, and Yuna all could heal. Yuna specifically could heal her aeons in a multitude of ways in and outside of battle. This isn't even covering the games that let you make your own skill setups or summons that healed.

And since when FFIX and FFX are used to have a classic FF Job system? Its more about characters than job classes.
In FFVII - FFIX everyone was able to summon, to cast spells like thunder etc.

The Job system of Final Fantasy online titles rely on the CLASSIC job system of the old FF titles / FF tactics titles still have!! Just because it fits the online genre pretty well.



FFX' characters may have charactaristics of jobs (lulu may be somewhat of black mage, though waka was a "blitzballer" which is no classic FF job at all well..) .. and in FFVII- FFIX there was nothing like job classes, everyone could cast "BLM" spells and had the abillity to summon... but there is no FF job system behind that. Same for FFIX, FFVII, FFIX, FFXIII, FFXV etc.

The FF job system lies in the classic FF and tactics titles

[Texa]

words

Ah yes final fantasy tactics summoner! With a skill list that included

[Tonkra]

Ah yes final fantasy tactics summoner! With a skill list that included

As i said the summoner is able to heal through his pets.. yes..

You arent connected to the FF franchise do you? E.g. Carbuncle > healing ruby

Oh my God, man. Shut up. We are here to talk about summoner problems... can you stop being toxic and post something useful?

Something usefull i said:

get back pet heal cut out physick. If you grant SMN a proper heal we could grant every dd a heal.. because "we want it".

this is the only "unique selling point" of rdm atm.

[Ariomi]

As i said the summoner is able to heal through his pets.. yes..

You arent connected to the FF franchise do you? E.g. Carbuncle > healing ruby

Kinda defeats the purpose of why Summoners want a heal. To heal my injured pet, I will summon a completely different pet! Oh wait... where did Garuda go? That's like selling your car for gas money. Also your point is already mute because Summoner already has physic as a skill. It's just useless.

[Johaandr]

FFX' characters may have charactaristics of jobs (lulu may be somewhat of black mage, though waka was a "blitzballer" which is no classic FF job at all well..) .. and in FFVII- FFIX there was nothing like job classes, everyone could cast "BLM" spells and had the abillity to summon... but there is no FF job system behind that. Same for FFIX, FFVII, FFIX, FFXIII, FFXV etc.

The FF job system lies in the classic FF and tactics titles

Wakka is indeed a blitzball player but he was a ranged-dps type that could easily hit flying type without missing AND Also able to hit a enemy far away out of reach.. If u ever used Tidus and tried to attack a flying type then lmfao its either "miss" or "out of reach". FF dont need a classic job name either because there will always be a magician, ranged or melee as dps trinity. Or healer, supporter and tank.

The point is: never compare older ff games to the new ones;p its still final fantasy with different appearence on each series.

Arcanist has healing skill for a reason but they should scale it to INT so it would be fair to support ur pet for a bit. Also smn are able to use res too. Its fun that smn are able to support party members with raise. So why not physick