Summoner Over-Nered (and A few other Problems)

[Caduagm]

blah blah blah

I've never asked for a stronger physick or a semi healer.
I said they took off sustain because they thought it was useless which is obviously not.
Please go level your summoner and come to this post after you learn it. And also; stop being toxic.

[Tonkra]

I've never asked for a stronger physick or a semi healer.

But airomi did and many people liked the idea by improving the physick spell. And yes im getting toxic if people are unable to understand or to read carefully.

Because my opinion was "get back sustain or a proper pet heal" instead of improving physick to become a semi healer like RDM. RDM draws its uniqueness in its hybrid job class idea, he is not a burst damage dealer like BLM nor a healer like a White mage. Now if more dd classes come up with the idea (give me a support heal) it would remove the uniqueness from RDM.

Nor does it solve the problem of SMN's lack of damage.

I am fairly certain no one has said that having sustain back would not be helpful. .

I talked with ariomi about 3 pages here in this thread by saying "get back sustain (or even a proper pet heal) back and remove the useless physick spell instead" which firstly would straighten up the role of the SMN even more up. And get rid of the relics of the old base class system.

[Saito_S]

My goodness. Bit of a long post incoming, but eh, servers are down and I'm not in bed yet so I'm bored.

Texa was right about one thing for sure (well, more than one thing, but this one thing stuck out to me):

Tonkra, a lot of your posts come of as EXTREMELY condescending and arrogant. "GOD! Why can't these plebs possess the deep understanding of How Final Fantasy Works, that only True Fans can understand?!!?"

That is how you come across. At least to me.

Also, you might be interested to know, O Lord and Keeper of True Final Fantasy system knowledge, that you're flat wrong about FFIX. You've mentioned it SEVERAL times now, lumping it in (as "FFVII - FFX") with the "there are no jobs because everyone can learn everything!" type games. Stiener cannot learn Fire or Thunder, because he is a Knight. Vivi cannot learn Steal, because he is a Black Mage. Nobody but Freya can Jump, because she is the Dragoon. Etc.

So how do you square your assertions that This Job Must Work This Way with the fact that FFIX was WAY more committed to each character having a job than any game in the main (e.g. FF Tactics doesn't count) series since V? And yet, Garnet and Eiko were both summoner-healers. Sure you couldn't shuffle the jobs around like in V, but each character had their job, which boxed them in heavily to certain types of abilities. VI, VII, and VIII all worked in the opposite manner (with VI, in particular, being sort of a hybrid since everyone could learn any magic spell with no restriction whatsoever aside from Umaro, yet each character also had unique skills beyond just Limit Breaks).

For that matter, what ABOUT VI, VII, and VIII? That's three games, including two of the most beloved and influential in the entire franchise, that all eschewed the concept of "summoner" entirely. ANYONE could summon whatever they wanted if they had the right item equipped. You can't just discount those because they don't suit your bizarrely obsessive class-box argument.

If you're going to talk down to people, at least know your shit.

A couple other things:

If you grant SMN a proper heal we could grant every dd a heal.. because "we want it".

Why? It's TWO DPS classes, both casters, that wold have a decent heal. No one is asking for a strong cure spell on DRGs, nor will anyone go "SMN can heal well?? Why can't I heal on DRG then??" Also note, decent - an RDM is no substitute for a full healer in situations where serious damage is coming out. It's e backup/support/emergency tool, and of course is useful for solo'ing and in PotD, but that's all. Also SMN is already not pure-DPS all day, every day... Raise!! It's the only DPS class that can raise! (well, or was, before RDM). So how does that square with your paradigm?

this is the only "unique selling point" of rdm atm

Pfft, hardly. You could just straight-up rip Vercure out of the skillset, just un-exist the entire spell from the game, and I'd still play RDM. I mean, don't get me wrong, I'm happier having it, but your comment here is at best a huge stretch.

And in reference to the fact that XIV DRK is a tank:

Thats one thing that Yoshida "fucked up" at this point.

lol

[MortalWare]

Thats what i was asking in an other thread here

That is awesome! Yes please!

[Ariomi]

And you cant even argument why a pet heal wouldnt be enough for a Summoner.

I've already answered this question for you several times.

Asking for Sustain back is the equivalent to asking for Perfect Dodge back. Do you remember that Ability? There's no reason to believe that anything removed from the game is coming back ever.

Before heavensward, Blm's had things like triple flare, and as badly as Blm want those back, I don't think it's happening. Just like how I don't think Whm will get stoneskin back, Dragoons will get Ring of thorns back, or any other skill that vanished into the void.

This in no means fixes Summoner's lack luster damage. It gives them the basic functionality that they lack after their dedicated pet heal was removed.
Difference between Scholar's and Summoners? Scholars can atleast heal their pet. This fixes Summoner's pet dying which is no less than 25% of their dps.

[Tonkra]

There's no reason to believe that anything removed from the game is coming back ever.

And thats a complete non-argument.

Why? It's TWO DPS classes, both casters, that wold have a decent heal.

How would that solve the lack of damage for summoners in any way now?

On the contrary a summoner with "sustain" (pet heal over time) would grant you more dps, because with a better physick spell you would spend more time healing instead of doing damage. A heal over time heals automatically over time while you could perform damage spells.

If you're going to talk down to people, at least know your shit.

Yes and i know that FFXI and FFXIV rely on the traditional job class system (with the typical artifact armors) roles and whatever comes next to it. And it is not reyling on FFVII, FFIX or anything which have none of the traditional job class system. Which doesnt mean that these are influenced by them or come close to them.
FF tactics makes use of the job system which strictly seperates the jobs from each other. How they do with FFXI and FFXIV (SMN/SCH are here the exception because they are the only jobs that share the base class)

No one is asking for a strong cure spell on DRGs

Well in the past i could have asked for my BLM to improve the healing effect of "Physick" while it was equipped as well..
Why didnt i do it? Because i dont expect a damage dealer with huge burst damage like BLM to heal.

an RDM is no substitute for a full healer in situations where serious damage is coming out. It's e backup/support/emergency tool, and of course is useful for solo'ing and in PotD, but that's all. Also SMN is already not pure-DPS all day, every day... Raise!! It's the only DPS class that can raise! (well, or was, before RDM). So how does that square with your paradigm?

Thats because of the base class system which Yoshida wants to get rid actually. SMN has heal and raise just because they share the base class.

[Ilenya]

Yes and i know that FFXI and FFXIV rely on the traditional job class system (with the typical artifact armors) roles and whatever comes next to it. And it is not reyling on FFVII, FFIX or anything which have none of the traditional job class system. Which doesnt mean that these are influenced by them or come close to them.

Legitimate question. You have played FFIX, right? Zidane, Steiner, Vivi, Kuja, all them? Because the more you mention that it didn't have traditional jobs, the more I wonder...

[Tonkra]

Legitimate question. You have played FFIX, right? Zidane, Steiner, Vivi, Kuja, all them? Because the more you mention that it didn't have traditional jobs, the more I wonder...

Why do you come along with FFIX when its clear that FFXI and FFXIV jobs arent clearly based on these titles? You wont find a samurai or any other jobs like that in these titles..,



additionally it makes me wonder how we came from "my pet dies very fast, they dropped of sustain, SMN's damage is too low" to a "i want to heal my party members". Then please give my BLM heal too, because it gives me a disadvantage not to heal and raise, while RDM and SMN are able to semi-heal

[Ariomi]

Thats because of the base class system which Yoshida wants to get rid actually. SMN has heal and raise just because they share the base class.

Yet.. Summoner used to be unique as the only dps class to rez. You are strangely hypocritical when it suits you.
Red Mage now has Rez and Summoner is no longer unique.
And Yoshi P has had plenty of time to get rid of the class system. Storm blood was a perfect opportunity to do so. Yet he didn't. Your arguments are flawed and your too toxic to offer any sort of constructive feedback.

If you want to talk about old final fantasy games, Give Summoner knights of the round and let me solo most content. Or I'll happily pay Yojimbo to kill my enemies for me

[Caduagm]

useless as aleays.

Ok, let me ask you something.
You are a BLM what are you even doing on this thread?
Spreading toxicity for no reason?