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  1. #221
    Player
    Enla's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2015
    Location
    Gridania
    Posts
    2,748
    Character
    Crushing Fatigue
    World
    Balmung
    Main Class
    Scholar Lv 70
    I have to echo what everyone else is saying. SCH is the weakest of the healers now and while it /can/ do the job it's an inordinate struggle compared to our counterparts who have otherwise benefited from the various skill culls. We can no longer DPS properly due to our reduced dots, we can't heal properly because of our current lack of potency, and while the faerie helps we all know that both Eos and Selene have some serious AI problems that often cause mad spamming of their actions on our part before they'll even proc properly.
    We're pretty much sitting where AST was at the beginning of HW content. Severely undertuned compared to the others and incapable of competing in either healing potency, mana regen, or damage output. Without a proper balancing patch I would not be surprised if most SCH mains, myself included, moved onto a different healing class altogether.
    (4)

  2. #222
    Player
    Cynfael's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2014
    Posts
    2,164
    Character
    Sacrilege Moonshadow
    World
    Hyperion
    Main Class
    Black Mage Lv 80
    Quote Originally Posted by Starflake View Post
    I'm with a well geared experienced tank. So I am talking from the best possible conditions to pull these large packs. I've done them on WHM too and the difference between the two classes is incredibly obvious. You contribute a lot more as a WHM and your raw healing potential is far greater. It's actually a bit of a struggle to keep tanks alive as a Scholar on huge packs, no matter what tank. But I cope. However, this does not mean, that because Scholar can do it, that it should be normalized, or treated as if it's fine. It clearly isn't. I'd also like to point out that I have done these dungeons many time, as I have been using them to level. I've had big packs pulled each time, so I am very used to it. The tank died once in hours of gameplay simply because I had no stacks or recourses left as the aoe damage was incredibly low.

    It's unfair for Scholar to have weaker raw healing AND DPS than it's counterpart healers.
    I think you might have misconstrued the gist of my post. It wasn't a response to you in particular; rather I agree more with your side of the argument. I'm just pointing out one of the factors that contributes to players having vastly differing opinions on how effectively or how smoothly X healer operates.

    For example, I could base my assessment of SCH on how it performs in groups where the tank is skilled and everything generally goes well, but even in the best case scenario I would point out that AST at least equals and mostly surpasses its capabilities in most areas other than single-target damage.
    (2)

  3. #223
    Player
    Binahel's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Ul'dah
    Posts
    53
    Character
    Sivesh Binahel
    World
    Ragnarok
    Main Class
    Summoner Lv 73
    I must add to the pleas mine: SCH is no more fun to play, it is actually stressful.
    I played all the three healers to 60 through all the content possible, my choice was SCH because it was a bit more fun and I frankly love pet jobs - the fairy is sooo cute.

    After this expansion and running some dungeon, I noticed my ability to heal decreased a lot, to the point I must really be super alert all the time of all the CD and I really struggle during big pulls. I manage because luckily I have some friends that are very good tanks but I must be honest and say that now healing with SCH is a stress. What really bother me the most is the fact I really don't understand the Adloquium usage - now with such a step mp price and such a low mp recover it becomes something you cast only once in a never (if you want to keep your mp to a good level).
    Other SCH friends also told me the tether has some AI issues and the fairy sometimes don't heal appropriately.
    (4)

  4. #224
    Player
    Cabalabob's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Posts
    1,671
    Character
    Gunsa Cabalabob
    World
    Sargatanas
    Main Class
    Arcanist Lv 90
    It seems like they're trying to make SCH more about aetherflow charges, with fey union being charged by aetherflow use and quickened aetherflow, but i think quickened aetherflow needs a change. It's hard to plan around something that has such a low chance to proc. I'd much rather have a 100% chance to proc with a lower effect. Like "Every time you use an aetherflow charge, aetherflow's recast is reduced by 2 seconds". The overall effect may be lower but the consistency and reliability would make it much stronger this way.

    Also, please replace dissipation with a weak AoE aetherflow attack with a 30% chance to not consume an aetherflow charge on use. SCH is now the only healer with no AoE nuke like holy and gravity and it makes AoE on SCH very dull. Dissipation was a failed experiment and the only time I ever used it was pvp.. where it no longer exists...

    Also, as others are saying, potency, SCH has such low potency heals and this was fine when the fairy was making up the difference, but you can't nerf the fairy and then not buff the SCH. If a tank isn't properly maintaining CDs, SCH is the only healer where I literally can't keep up with the damage right now.
    (7)
    Last edited by Cabalabob; 06-29-2017 at 05:53 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Gilthas View Post
    The anonymity of the internet is what leads people to become jerks online.

    You could make a game where all you did was run through fields of flowers holding hands and you'd still get a guy telling you you're doing it wrong.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mcshiggs View Post
    Everyone knows you skip through fields of flowers holding hands, running noobs need to go back to WoW.

  5. #225
    Player
    TheChemicalCat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2017
    Posts
    36
    Character
    Vector Arbalest
    World
    Gilgamesh
    Main Class
    Red Mage Lv 70
    Dissipation is made worse in that it's worth was giving you emergency aetherflow stacks, but as you need your fairy out to get fairy meter, you can't even use these, at least for meter. a SCH was never pressed to use Dissipation and it's even less useful now.

    I'd rather take Moonstone Carbuncle over Fey Union too.
    (6)

  6. #226
    Player
    Archamgel's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Posts
    55
    Character
    Logan Grayborn
    World
    Jenova
    Main Class
    Scholar Lv 70
    I finally got Sch to 70, and man was it a slog and a half. I have also ran quite a few dungeons since getting 70 (no ex's because I would rather take something else). I was a Sch main, but after doing a single run of Sirensong Sea, I knew this wasn't the Scholar I had mained since 2.0. This is going to probably end up long, but it is just from loving Sch. A run down of my issues while leveling and having reached 70:

    -Tools that I have always used for those "Oh, sh**" moments became something I had to blow through just to keep the tank alive at the end of the fight. Emergency Tactics was always on Cd, I blew through Aether using Lustrate like a mad man, and Eos was micro managed like I always have her (Place her>Fey Illumination>Rouse>Whispering Dawn). And I had no time for anything else, and this is with tanks that I know where using Cd's, dodging AoE's, and were properly geared. With not so great tanks, it was eit her I used all my resources to keep them at 10% most of the fights, or they died. My ability to keep tanks alive shouldn't have been this rough! It did get better once I got to 70 and was wearing that gear, but what's the point of having to work twice as hard as other healers to barely scrape by and have time to contribute more?


    -That first part wouldn't have been a problem if it weren't for this one. Our shields are absolutely worthless. Even crit Adlos were taken down in 2 or so hits. And if it isn't a crit? Psh, they would burn through the shield and still damage our allies. I could deal with the increase in mana, but that is only if they were much stronger than what they are now. Scholar has always been the ablative healer. Proactive instead of reactive. These shields are nothing more than wrapping my allies in toilet paper (crits are 2-ply) and sending them to face guys with swords, guns, and magic.


    -To me, Scholar is an ablative healer, but it's best form of mitigation has always been killing the things that are throwing out the damage in the first place. And here, this is where Scholar (and my heart) just falls to pieces. Contributing damage to fights has always been my favorite part about scholar. I have half my as skills as damaging ones, so I definitely plan on using them. Sch 4.0 hits about as hard as throwing the empty toilet paper roll that I used for shielding at the enemy.

    Bane nerf was FAR too harsh. We are the only ones that get hit with an 80% damage loss, we only have 2 dots to spread, and they only add up to 70 potency. Going from that, down to 14 potency after the fifth is just way too harsh. This is even before considering that the healers that are considered the "pure healer" and "buffer" have 200 potency attacks that only drop off to 100 potency after the fifth. It was far more satisfying (and definitely more dps) doing Holy spam with Thin Air. This also doesn't take into account that Aero III doesn't do less damage to targets at all, and Assize is a 300 potency nuke and heal now with no damage drop off.

    As for single target, Whm still has us beat with higher potency and less mana intensive damaging spells. (All of this kind of makes me wonder if they even thought of the 10% damage we used to get from Cleric Stance.)


    -Dissipation is still a thing on my skill list. i believe that says more than enough, but I will go into detail because of how terrible I think it is. We only have three healing spells. These are Physick, Adloquium, and Succor. 20% on these may make them better (with 3 Aether Stacks on top), but I will never see this as worth taking away a fairy. Eos can put up Fey Illumination, be Roused, and place a regen. All of that, while giving you 20% to your spells as well. Sure, this is for a shorter duration, but the entire time, she is healing along with you. This, added with the new fairy gauge, just makes that one ability clash with the entire kit and makes me think we should get something instead of that.


    -The fairy nerf was warranted. I was perfectly ok with the fairy nerf. More often than not, I would joke with my friends saying things like "Who? Me? Healer? No, that is Eos' job. I'm just a 3rd dps" and would continue running everything in cleric stance with little healing or mitigation from me.

    The fairy nerf on top of all of our problems, though? No. Choose one or the other. You can't just put a huge nerf across the board for us, fix Whm mp issues, and say "better buff Astro some more". That's not how any of "balancing" works. I'm not saying those jobs are perfect (I have a 70Whm, so I know those issues as well), but we just can't even compare to the raw healing of Whm or the far better and less costly shields of Astro (who just keeps trying to take our jerbs!). We are the mitigation job. We mitigate
    so we can contribute dps and ease the healing from our co-healers. I want that back, please. (PS-Give back Sustain. There was a grand total of 0 reasons to remove it. Tanks give just many cares to guide a cleave to fairy as you have reasons for removing Sustain.)

    Other healers see the fairy as "free mp cures", but, honestly that just isn't the case. Fairy is a compliment to our healing style. We pay for fairy all the time in that our heals are weaker for her being there. She is there to mitigate the amount of healing we need to do directly for a bit while we do damage. Other healers have "on-demand" 650-700 potency spells, while we have a 600 potency ability that we can only use three times in the course of a minute.


    -As for new stuff we got, they range from "meh" to "not good" for me.
    Broil II is another damaging spell. Less potency than Stone IV, and more mana, but I welcome more damage spells. Animation is pretty nice, too.

    Chain Stratagem was good on paper, but in practice, people are lucky to get 4 or 5 hits in with this up. Its usefulness is increased with more people, but it should be more useful for dungeons as well. Maybe bump it up a few secs?

    Aetherpact is, again, good on paper, but not in practice. To start with, this thing takes awhile to build up. 3mins minimum. And then you have to position fairy within 10 yalms of the tank and hope he doesn't have to move. This skill can be fairly good as a strong regen for the tank, but it is super clunky. Fairy has always been fairly clunky (her delays on executing commands, not canceling a heal to execute a command, and more), and we just don't need more clunkiness on top of it. This should be at least 30 yalms.

    Excogitation is just not good. There have been times where I think the tank will fall to half in the 30s window and it never happens, meaning a wasted aetherflow and a long cd. It is also only 50 more potency than Lustrate, so why risk it? If it didn't use an Aetherflow stack, this would be a pretty good ability.


    -Way too many things use Aetherflow! This means that when push comes to shove, I will only be spending them on necessary things. These being Lustrate, Indomitability, and Bane (for whatever it's worth). Other abilities just aren't worth it. Energy Drain is only good for a small dps boost and to recover from not watching your mp. Sacred Soil's 10% dmg reduction isn't worth it. Excog is something I have already went over above. The level 68 trait doesn't even come close to helping the "Aether Skill Bloat", as others have already shown with their math. Either increase our Aetherflow stack numbers or generation, or, even better, make some of these Cd's.


    -Lastly, but most importantly, Sch has lost its fun factor. Sch should have kept its high skill ceiling. Not every job needs to have low ceiling-floor skill gaps. Sch was great fun keeping up with dots, shadowflare, shields, deployments, ice 2, and just being able to keep the party healed while contributing meaningful damage. Now, that is all thrown out of the window, into the street, and hit by a semi. We apply 2 dots, bane them (for whatever that's worth), use shadowflare (for at least half the fight it will be up, and that's if the tank positions the mobs in it), and then spam the single target Broil II. Whm has AoE dots (that don't decrease in value) and an "on-demand" nuke with Holy (now much easier with Thin Air) and Assize for a heal/dmg nuke, while Astro has Gravity and Earthly Star (again, a heal/dmg nuke). Not wanting every kit to be the exact same, but we could use a nuke like everyone else. I'm even ok with us not having a stun, still, just give us a nuke!




    Overall, I think our solid foundation was ripped out from under us. We just don't fit in well in places where the other two can have it covered better. Whm has better throughput and damage, and Astro has better shielding and utility, so all of the bases are covered better. Scholar is in dire need of some love. I know we were in a league with Warrior, but I had no idea such a wrath would come down on us from Yoshi-P and his crew.

    So far, I have had a much better time with Whm, and I only had Whm to 34 before this ex-pac because I never liked it. It is a strong "pure healer" when it needs it be, which isn't often, since its regens usually do the bulk of the work.

    I have gotten used to the shoehorned Lucid Dream, and have no mp issues if I manage Aetherflow and Lucid Dream.

    I got my Sch to 70 in the hopes that they won't treat Sch like 3.0 Astro and wait as long to fix it, but in the meantime I will play something else.

    Just as a side thought, I honestly believe all the healer problems stem from Astro being a half-baked class. Because it is almost a carbon copy of the 2 OG healers, it will always be in a vacuum of comparison. "It doesn't do regens/shields as good as Whm/Sch". This causes them to be in a weird place of trying to do what the others can without being too good or bad. If they would have given it more of an identity, it wouldn't be trying to steal ours.
    (27)
    Last edited by Archamgel; 06-29-2017 at 10:28 PM.

  7. #227
    Player
    MsTanya's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2017
    Posts
    100
    Character
    Tanya Fierlaine
    World
    Gilgamesh
    Main Class
    Scholar Lv 90
    It made me sad that I could only upvote you once arch...lol
    (4)

  8. #228
    Player
    Lyndina's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Posts
    85
    Character
    Lucie Bonney
    World
    Shiva
    Main Class
    Astrologian Lv 100
    Couldnt agree more, Scholar is my main class so im running dungeons right now with this. Whenever i got lucky and get a tank that decides to pull everything at once,or more than one trashpack it gets stressy. As many said,lustrate is really the only thing that can save your tank when a ton of damage comes out. Running out of aetherflow? Yeah..have fun spamming physicks like a maniac until you have aetherflow ready. Thats your idea of fun SE? Or even balancing. Of course,i could change to another class,but do i want to? No, because thats how i want to play. I dont wanna hop onto the bandwagon to change to a AST. Seriously concidering not renewing my subscription because of this.
    (6)

  9. #229
    Player
    Lildragora's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2017
    Location
    The Azim Steppe
    Posts
    218
    Character
    Lillian Mandragora
    World
    Leviathan
    Main Class
    White Mage Lv 70
    You have 3 healers SE, Pure Healer, Mitigation Healer, and a buff Healer. Treat them as such, lest you loose more of my confidence in your ability to create a experience I want to experience. This whole expansion while having a great set of good things has ultimately made me question if this is a game I want to follow for years or maybe just ride a bit longer.

    In my opinion WHM should hands down be able to output more hps than anything, SCH should easily be able to mitigate damage and use the BAKED IN DPS CLASS abilities EFFICIENTLY, AST should be able to comparably heal or shield but not be as up to par in either while providing powerful party utilities. Let them specialize how they are supposed to. As for the DPS on the other two, WHM and AST I feel thats fine just give sch a trait to undo that terrible idea of a bane nerf.

    As I said before on the forums, everything I want to complain about SCH has been said. At this point im just continuously expressing dissatisfaction from i270 to now i314. Just not a fun experience playing my main of 2.x to current 4.0.
    (8)

  10. #230
    Player
    Lyndina's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Posts
    85
    Character
    Lucie Bonney
    World
    Shiva
    Main Class
    Astrologian Lv 100
    Yeah my thoughts exactly Lidragora. Im pretty new to the game (allthough registered since oct 2014), so i started a months ago again with a fresh character, cause i wanted to have a game that i can sink my time into. Until 70 i said to myself. "Well,think at 70 my class would perform better". But then it hit me like a train, im at a 309 Itemlevel (which istn high,undoubtly) but nothing changed...the same struggle keeping Tanks alive like the leveling dungeons. The main mechanic doesnt work...shielding...so im stuck with spamming physics...which undoubtly sucks in comparison to the other classes. So...what now? I dont know, as i said i wanted to find a game in which i spend my time. Final fantasy was perfect for it, but now everyday i log in i have my doubts. When the Developers cant even balance 3! Healing classes, what could i expect for the future of the game? Played Wow for 10 Years straight,never have i seen such an inbalance inbetween heal classes. Every Role hat its purpose.
    (1)

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