Advanced Traditional Classes with a new twist ^^

[Rentahamster]

Indeed. The thing you need to be careful about, is to try to not dilute the class pool too much. It's a tad hard to make every class unique when you end up having 15+ classes to choose from.

At any rate, I seem to recall Yoshi-P saying that they want to fix the most egregious problems with the game first, and balance all the current classes. Only then will they attempt to add more classes to the game.

[Chibino]

personally i like to see classic type jobs as advance jobs and have the current classes as basic / base jobs. and use a combination of FF tactic job system & FF xi quest line. by doing so it making jobs harder to obtain so when achieved it is something to be proud of while giving a sense of building your character. your not only gathering skills, like how the current armory system is but like in tactics you need gladiator + conjurer to be able to pick up the quest line to unlock paladin. this way unlike FFxi where you need any starter job leveled up to 30 then do any of the advance job quest lines, you will get the sense of building your character and proudly saying i am a rank 50 paladin. knowing the effort put in and the sense of achievement but also others will know it also. so reaching rank cap for multiple classes would show how much effort you put into the game. this gives lore and present challenge for players to reach classes they have always loved.

current jobs can be listed with more basic names similar to final fantasy tactic (The War of the Lions) like:
Gladiator = Squire
Marauder = Fighter
Pugilist = Brawler (new to FF series)
Lancer = Lancer (lancer is a good basic name it can evolve into dragoon or something else)
Archer = Archer (archer also works fine it can evolve into ranger or corsair)

magic classes are harder to give basic names since white mage and black mage are usually the basic of final fantasy magic users. but like in final fantasy tactics it started off as a chemist. i dont think chemist would work in this situation but anything would be fine i guess. like FF tactic series which usually has many unlockable classes this will give room for enough classes which can be released in expansions.

personally i like to have a little bit more freedom with weapons maybe i want to be a red mage with a pistol or warrior with a 2-handed great axe? having freedom to mix and match skills and weapons would make a great game. sure you need some passive (traits) & active (abilities) skills that are only for that class while some can be crossed over for other classes to use. i also think that guild marks should be used for training type quest instead of instantly buying the skill.

[Dargoth_Draconia]

I would like to see it similar to tactics when it comes to your first part where to become a Paladin you would have to be Rank 50 Glad Rank 30 Conjurer and do some decent length quest and at the very end you obtain an AF Sword & Shield. They aren't going to remove the Armory system so by getting a special wpn it would be awesome, even though I am with you on that to some extent they don't want a FFXI clone.

I would disagree on how you have what classes turn into what classes but overall me and LS had the same idea of how it should work it actually resembles EQ2 and some other titles. Also right now on the Back to the Question part he only put Eorzea because that is the only part of the game that is out at the moment. Think about it, when they add new continent and stuff they will already fit under the new structure system he is building so he doesn't need to say change the rule set of Hydaelyn.

[Rydin]

i also think that guild marks should be used for training type quest instead of instantly buying the skill.

That really stuck out... I've never thought of that, thats a really good idea... instead of buying "Heavy XXX" or the class affinity... the guild marks are used to start the training quest that gave each of those abilities..... and the quest could even give some insight into the best place to use these new skills.... I like your thinking Boukensha

[Rentahamster]

Rentahamster

I was one of the FFXI players ^^ I wouldn't say I enjoyed it though but I didn't see the problem as I always took my buffer to cap so it rolled over to merit points. I do however understand that other players would switch straight to merit points and level 75 gear or whatever and then when they died get really angry about de-levelling and having no level 74 gear, but I would just think well that's your fault for not having a buffer =P

When in grind parties on FFXI when it got late and you wanted to log but you were so close to the next level so stuck it out, you would get it then think hmm I better get another 2k EXP or something in case I die on the way back. That really shouldn't be something you have to worry about.

I think a system like your's is better for everyone as you shouldn't really need to have to keep levelling to have a buffer incase you die and it would be nice to reward players who take extra care to avoid dying.

Ahh I see. Yeah, I was thinking of a way that could give the same sort experiences to players without forcing it on anyone who didn't like it. I think the idea of rewarding players for good behavior is more important than punishing them for bad behavior.

[Rydin]

Ahh I see. Yeah, I was thinking of a way that could give the same sort experiences to players without forcing it on anyone who didn't like it. I think the idea of rewarding players for good behavior is more important than punishing them for bad behavior.

You're right.. I propose a mi'qote spank house

[AlexiaKidd]

I would disagree on how you have what classes turn into what classes but overall me and LS had the same idea of how it should work it actually resembles EQ2 and some other titles. Also right now on the Back to the Question part he only put Eorzea because that is the only part of the game that is out at the moment. Think about it, when they add new continent and stuff they will already fit under the new structure system he is building so he doesn't need to say change the rule set of Hydaelyn.

He said in an interview when they quizzed him as to what the question meant as players were nervous, that he said "I purposely used "In Eorzea..." instead of "In FFXIV". I wanted players to anticipate and think "I wonder what Eorzea's rules are?"."

That is what got me thinking about what he could have meant. I like to think that maybe he meant we are in a Big Fish Small Pond scenario and that in Eorzea we might be powerful enough to defeat what comes our way but once we step outside we realise that there are much bigger and badder things out there and in order to progress we will need to step it up a gear. That is how the advanced jobs come in for my line of though.

The final R46 Mission springs to mind here, as that got me so excited to see more of the story now, up until then it was pretty meh for me. But after seeing that I was really excited and decided that I wanted to get all my classes up as fast as possible so that when the content comes I will be able to jump straight into it.

Obviously this is only my interpretation and certainly not written in gospel so anyone can interpret it many other ways. I just think it would be really cool to go to a new place and realise that we are not as strong as we think we are to give us motivation for a more focused discipline.

[Spuffin]

The sad thing is that they have already made their decision and are not taking in any ideas we are giving out. They are going to see if their new idea will work and then they will get a popularity vote and maybe listen to us and change it then. When Yoshi P made that statement, he obviously ALREADY had a plan but did not tell us and all we are doing is speculating.

All we can do is wait. Ideas won't do anything atm, all they are are distractions.

Besides that, How can they possible add or continue with the current classes considering that everybody is already lvl 50 and then they make advanced jobs past 50?

*** that! I rather play FF11 and unlock them at 30 and get more advanced job abilities from 30-75 than continue to use lame weapon skills and abilities. Do you know how long that would take to hit 50 off of boring guild leves and then go to unlock a class that would only last 10-25 levels... Do you know how many freakin skills you would have or how little the amount of new skills you would get from 50-75? It wouldnt be much and you would still be stuck using all of those shitty weapon skills and abilities that were not well thought out at all but with a new "class name" You can already equip a grib of skills at lvl 50 which is completely unbalanced btw... In taht case imagine how many skills you would have a 75-99... there would be no diversity.

I highly doubt they will do that

From what Yoshi P stated, I feel that he will completely revamp the armory system and give the players what you expected/wanted from the beginning. EVERYONE and their mother expected a FF11-2 before the FF14 betas began and figured out that they are trying something new. And when the new system was introduced all the MMO players lit their copy on fire while all the fanbois placed their copy in their shrine located in their closet. It all went down hill from there.

[Winry_Rockbell]

My Vision For Eorzea

So there are a lot of idea's floating around about how to implement traditional classes, some of which are great and some not so great, so here is my newest vision of how I hope SE shape the game. I did post this in my "scrapping current classes" thread but as we are not scrapping with this idea I thought maybe it deserved a thread of it's own, if you don't agree you can let it sink into obscurity. Anyway it may seem similar to a few at first but it does have a twist or two that I have not seen anyone else mention so please read it all before you comment ^^

First though I want to direct your attention to this question that was in the first player poll:

11. Would you welcome changes to FINAL FANTASY XIV that would drastically alter the rules already set in Eorzea?

Now we know 85.2% voted yes, but that is irrelevant here. How the question was worded was the key and I will get to that later as it is the main reason for my idea.

The Basic Idea

What I hope they do to introduce the traditional jobs is to add them as advanced jobs as many have said. However there is a twist with my plan and I am sure many will hate it ^^

As many are aware the final Rank cap for FFXIV is not going to be Rank 50 most likely it will be 99 eventually. Basically my idea will be when you hit Rank 50 on a class you open up 2 new jobs which you can level, you can do both if you please once you have unlocked them through a nice quest to introduce each one and the lore behind them. The jobs would be as follows:

GLA - Paladin and Dark Knight
MRD - Warrior and Beastmaster
PUG - Monk and Thief
ARC - Ranger and Corsair
LNC - Dragoon and Samurai
CON - White Mage and Black Mage
THM - Red Mage and Summoner

Now I have called these jobs and not classes as this is what they will be, ACTUAL JOBS. With these job you will not start back at Rank 1 it will be an advancement of your current class. So while you would be a Rank 1 DRK that would be on to of your Rank 50 GLA, so you would not be a weakling and have to return to the starter area's (that would defeat the point of having a powerful advanced class =P). Now the twist is that on all of these JOBS every skill and ability that they learn will be unique to it and none transferable to other jobs. You can still add every single skill and ability you have learnt from levelling all the base "classes" but nothing can be added from any actual job. So think of CON, THM, GLA, LNC, MRD, PUG and ARC as a huge sub job pool from which you can select skills and abilities from for your job. For example I could add Cure III from CON to a WAR but I could not add Souleater from DRK to WAR. Also you would of course be able to use abilities purchased from the Guilds from the base class tied to the advanced class. For example Archer's multi-shot could be used by Ranger and Corsair, Conjurer's Fast-cast could be used by Black Mage and White Mage and so on. They would have to add a few more interesting abilities to the Guilds for the base classes to make the other classes more interesting.

This would help add balance to the game at higher ranks and still allow a fair bit of freedom, creativity and help more with the lower to mid ranks.

Also with this I hope they would remove my pet peeve of being tied to a certain weapon, this would allow unique weapon skills for every weapon. The weaponskill's would be tied to the weapon allowing for you to have more choice in the weapon used for different situations, like DRK with Great Sword vs. Scythe (light vs. dark).

Back to the Question

Now one thing that give me hope for something like this was a question in the first player poll. Yoshi P. specifically stated that he had worded the question very carefully.

11. Would you welcome changes to FINAL FANTASY XIV that would drastically alter the rules already set in Eorzea?

Now we know 85.2% voted yes but Yoshi P. stated that he chose the word Eorzea and not FFXIV very specifically as Eorzea is only a small region of Hydaelyn.

I am really struggling to explain my thoughts here as I can't seem to find the right words to describe what I envision ; ;

It is kind of like in a movie when the main character is kind of like a street punk that is skilled at fighting and then he meets up with a master who gives him focus and direction and he becomes the best by using a combination of new skill's and old ones. I am sorry if that sounds so strange but I really can't think of a way to describe it ; ;

The way I see Eorzea is that it is only the start of our adventure, we ARE the street punk's and as we move to new places within Hydaelyn we learn of new ways to advance ourselves to make us stronger, which is where the advanced jobs come in. We see the power these jobs can give us. Imagine for DRK the quest starts with you going out into a dangerous area a cutscene starts and a huge beast attacks, you try your best but are starting to fail and then a DRK in full AF gear come's and fell's the beast with ease and thus your path to becoming a DRK has begun. They give us direction and focus on our journey up until then we were just kind of a jack of all trades. The idea is that the classes we have now are just beginner classes, maybe that is why they are a bit all over the place, they need guidance to become true warriors worthy of saving Eorzea maybe even Hydaelyn. Maybe that is why some some animations on spells and things are a little meh because they are nothing compared to the true power we will wield with our advanced classes which will really wow us, well I can dream can't I ^^

Anyway that is my hope for FFXIV.

*casts Barfira* ^^

I actually love the idea. 100% Agree.
Being a Dragoon just sounds B.A.

[AlexiaKidd]

Spuffin I
In all honesty I do agree with you the current system has a lot of flaws, I do not like the Armoury System as is as it just creates a bunch of mish mash classes all with nothing special about them. I admit I did expect FFXI-2 not a direct clone though like everyone seems to think you mean when that phrase is thrown around. I wanted an evolution, I wanted them to take everything that was good about FFXI and build on it make it better. I wanted them to look at the things that people didn't like and see if they could be reworked or if they needed to be scrapped. I feel that with FFXIV they just took everything they learned with FFXI and threw it away.

I know SE wanted to try something new but I feel like they did too much and I just can't connect with it as much as I would like too, I still play FFXIV a lot but in all honesty I only do it in the hope that they will fix everything and my time spent levelling all my classes while there was no content will not have been wasted.

I also agree that levelling a class to R50 is alot to get access to the advanced classes as even I would not like to have to take GLA to 50 to get access to DRK, but the idea's were based around what we currently have and what we currently know. The idea was to somehow get passed the current classes without people who had already achieved R50 not feeling like they had wasted their time.

Yoshi stated that it will take 2 months to rollout the battle system changes they have made so what they have planned must be pretty big, it can't just be tweaks and balancing to the current system. My hope is for a complete redesign with traditional classes put in place but I know that will anger a lot of people, but SE have to wonder if it will be a case of upsetting the few to please the many. The poll's stated that players wanted change, now SE need to work out how much change will be needed to appeal to the largest player base. I may well find that I am in the minority and that most people actually like it as it is, only time will tell.

I made this thread to see to gauge peoples interest and see what other idea's people had and there have been some great idea's and while I would like this system to be implemented deep down it is not what I want, it is more of a case of making the best of what we have got.