Advanced Traditional Classes with a new twist ^^

[Dylan]

I too agree with your idea! Not sure if we read similar posts or what but our ideas are almost identical! I posted this a day or two ago but it got hidden deep in some dead forum and didn't get to be really seen so I'll post it here. Alot of the ideas are similar or identical, but we each have some ideas the other is missing so I'll post mine and see what you think.

I have read many posts about what yoshi plans on doign and what others want to see happening. In one of Yoshi's letters, he talks about how new classes will be advanced jobs, or branch jobs (or whatever you would like to call it.) Another lengthy post I read was about how "jobs" and "classes" are different.

One of my main concerns, and I believe alot of others is that the classes aren't unique enough.

Combining these ideas I thought of a unique system that would keep the existing classes. (Feel free to add where you feel I missed)

Classes are all different and serve different purposes but they aren't very unique. As they stand they are somewhat similar, and most classes can do what the other classes can. Here is where my idea comes in:

Idea:

At a certain Rank when you reach a class(Lets say ~35) you are given a quest(yes they will have to add quests!) to unlock class specific jobs. Each class would have 2 jobs. To give more content, they could make 2 seperate quests, 1 for each job. Once you complete that quest your rank 35 can now be a rank35 with their job as " ". For example: I reach rank35 Marauder, my class is still 35 MRD, but my job could be set as either a Berserker or a Dark Knight. These jobs do NOT have levels. They are just the same as your class. Based on what rank MRD you are, you will be given different abilities, and able to wield different weapons.

Example:

a R40 MRD(Berserker):
Ability to wield 2 handed axes, and get the ability "Rage":Increasing Attack damage for a limited time, while reducing defense.
a R40 MRD(DarkKnight):
Ability to wield 2 handed scythes, and at R40 get the ability "Drain2".

These spells are just examples, but you get the gist of it. Each job can only use their specific abilities/spells. So MRD(berserker) couldn't use MRD(darkknight) abilities and vise versa.

So, with this system, once you are Rank50 MRD, you would have a 50MRD(Darknight/Berserker) (assuming you completed the job quests). In order to maintain uniquness, and so players cannot just switch at will, you would have to set your class job in a city. This way we can avoid MRD switching between the 2 just by disengaging, and defeating the purpose of job uniqueness.

Classes:

Pugilist
Gladiator
Lancer
Marauder
Archer
Musketeer
Shield
Conjurer
Thaumaturge
Arcanist

I added Arcanist and Musketeer as classes, as they are most likely going to be added since they already have their respective guilds in Lima Lominsa.

Then you have the Jobs which can be unlocked at R35 for their specific classes. These are just some ideas I came up with for their respective classes, and the weapon classes that become unlocked with them.

Jobs(weapons):

Pugilist
Monk (knuckles)
Puppetmaster (claws)

Gladiator
Paladin (sword with shield)
Ninja (dual wield katanas)
Thief/Assassin (Dual wield daggers)

Lancer
Dragoon (Lance w/ Wyvern)
Samurai (Great Katana)
Spearman (Spears)

Marauder
Dark Knight (Scythe)
Berserker (Great Axe)
Warrior (2-handed Sword)

Archer
Beastmaster (Pet and Shortbow/1 handed axes)
Ranger (Longbow)
Marksman (Crossbow)

Musketeer
Corsair (1 handed guns)
Gunner (2 handed guns)

Shield
Physical Shield Bonus
Magical Shield Bonus (Absorb magical spells or deflect certain ones for more damage)

Conjurer
White Mage (Club)
Black Mage (Staff)
Bard (Instrument)

Thaumaturge
Red Mage (Staff or Shield)
NecroMancer (Books)
Blood Mage (Books)

Arcanist
BlueMage (Scmitar)
Summoner (Club)
Scholar (Books)

I know there are other jobs people would like to see but this is just an outline, and what i feel fit the best for each class. Please let me know what you guys think! I know it is a bit soon to be worrying about what kind of jobs they'll implement but I like to think about these kinds of things!

[AlexiaKidd]

I like the idea for the most part, But if they actually made you go all the way up to rank 50 to change to the higher end class, get ready for QQfest 2011. These whiners would have it lowered to rank 20 in no time, still complaining about how long it takes to get to rankk 20.

Yeah I realised that and I personally don't like it either as it would mean levelling classes I don't care about to gain access to the ones I do, but with the current system unless there is some huge changes I couldn't really see another way. I also realise it makes the current classes kind of pointless apart from the fact they can be used as tool's for your additional skills ontop of the advanced class.

I think the second job should be summoner

I did think of that but then I thought maybe another base class with pets could be introduced but thinking about it now if LNC can have DRG why can't THM have SMN, hey maybe MRD could have BST too as opposed to Berserker, think I may edit my OP to include them. Thanks for the inspiration ^^

What will happen to the basic jobs? Can you still rank those up to 99?

Well the plan was to have them stay at R50 and you branch out to the advanced classes upon achieving that. I know that will anger a lot of people but in the interest of balance I think it is the only way really. Like CON would probably have to have it's Ancient Magic removed so it could be placed on the BLM path but if you allowed CON to carry on levelling to 99 what new skill's and abilities would it earn that wouldn't be covered in the advanced paths?

I really like the way you put this, painted a picture in my mind. But I have a question, about the class advancement system in general. Assuming SE were to introduce more jobs later on, would they just link it to the general jobs we have now? If so, would they have to introduce them in sets of 6, to keep each job on level playing fields? I'm glad this topic is so hot, its one of my biggest concerns.

Not necessarily they could introduce a new base class and have the two advanced jobs link off of that every time they add something. For example if they wanted to add NIN and DNC they could make a kind of mish mash base class like they have now and then have the advanced paths branch off from there, that is what I would have thought anyway.

http://www.eorzeapedia.com/2011/03/0...naoki-yoshida/

That was my thinking, whatever they do they will only get one shot at it and it has to work, after they do whatever they decide there will be no turning back for them really they will have to stick it through to the end. They already stated that the system at the minute is a balancing nightmare and I believe carrying on further with it would only make things even more difficult for them, so they are going to have some tough decisions to make and they will not be able to please everybody.

Dylan

Sorry I didn't quote your post as I thought it would make this one too long and it is only straight above this one anyway for people to see ^^

I like your idea's they are great, I really do hope that SE looks into the forums and see that players can also have good idea's too. There are some amazing threads on here with some really great idea's from players that really want to help improve the game the trouble is like you said unless you start a new thread or are one of the first few posts after the OP no one really seems to read the rest of the threads so some great idea's go unnoticed in the longer threads ; ;

[CatchaFire420]

It was only a matter of time that some actual healthy discussion begins on the subjects the development team have put forth for us to evaluate. The social networking players engage in discussing relevant issues is not only a testament to the player base SE has built, but is the acknowledgment when something is wrong, everyone knows about it.

Plenty of criticism has only created an opportunity for SE to truly shift from the old model of doing business to the new model when done constructively, has created things like this very forum.

Accountability has been put on the shoulders of those if given the time and thoughtful evaluation of all of our ideas, will spark a new dawn in where SE takes their players and integrate them into their long term commitment to investing in players ideas and wants balanced with the development teams ability to deliver on content worthy of their name.

I think Alexia also has interesting ideas in the implementation. Indeed the question revolves around RentaHamster's quote that should SE make their move, it will need to be a well thought out and well implemented system because like most things in life no one ever remembers all the good things you have done, they only remember the major screw up you have yet to be accountable for.

Yes, people complain about the game being free, no content, etc... but the key here is drive home the point, we gamers pay to play. If I am paying for a service strictly for my personal enjoyment, then yes my expectations will always be high. Constructively, most people voice their personal opinion without any thought as to the logistics in implementation, time to write code, and overall balance that will be in direct opposition for the elite to maximize the consequence of these actions and either exploit them or use for what they were intended for.

We gamers have always been assumed to be merely pawns in a game that play the game mindlessly, without thought, or without intent. The reasons SE has been scrambling to create something new, is because they underestimated the fact that most of us FF11 players are masters of grinding, gaining SP/EXP , etc... they created an elite group of gamers by their own accord and are paying the price for being lax in that acknowledgment.

If anything our standards will continue to drive SE's focus, that will require the implementation of greater things based on the players ideas. The ivory tower SE lives in now is under siege and so the best way to re-define the industry standard is to listen to what we have to say.

Now Rome wasn't built in a day, so I implore people to give SE a moment to breathe, be constructive in your thoughts, and know that SE is taking a huge risk opening up their forums for our voice to be heard. Use this forum to re-define the industry. I have always been a fisherman in-game so i know what being patient adds to the equation: Quality.

Alexia is spot on when she describes the how to look at a complicated issue. I want to add at the risk of being pigeon holed into "go back to FF11", the ideas that conceptually made FF11 so damn good. The merit system SE created in principle gave rise to the best of the best putting in time to evolve a character into something we never thought was possible. My COR in FF11 was an incredible pulling machine, not because it was any different than other COR's options to merit certain abilities, but the customization created virtually exactly what I wanted out of the job: precise fishing job that could maximize the potential of the PT when it came to exp'ing or grinding now.

I would invite SE to take a look at a merit based system when considering introducing advanced jobs. We all know you don't have to be intellectual to grind a job to 50, all you need is time. To separate this rather mindless, but needed system is introduce what elite players want : a fully customizable set of directives that add functionality to the current class system and bolster that with ways to increase certain attributes. The guilds would be a good place to start. Each class has a guild, so begin there.

I mean does SE really think giving me a a transfer from piety to vitality for 8000 guild marks makes for a reasonable reward? It is like they have forgotten their roots, the stamina bar (besides the bottleneck it creates) would not be such a point of contention had they introduced real rewards like haste. The food issue is good for being well-fed but what the hell does that mean? All we get in food stuffs is a boost of stats +5 or less, it is then tiered to class level as if eating a honey muffin versus a poppy seed muffin would create any incentive to craft or even eat food for that matter.

Use a merit system in principle to create advanced jobs that require customization of what we the players want in terms of specific job/class customization. Use the current guild system to deliver the goods by performing tasks we know will make our character ours. Thanks^^

Ps. Alexia we know each other.

[AlexiaKidd]

Hey Aneas ^^

Nice post and exactly what needed to be said.

I would love a Merit Point system I have often complained about the fact that my MRD is now pretty much retired now it has hit R50 ; ; I would love to be able to help people who are close to Rank 50 grind those last few levels and still be rewarded for the time I put in, and a system like the Merit Point system would do that. I think at the minute though with the final cap most likely not being Rank 50 I am not sure how they would implement it, unless of course they are saving it for the final cap.

Another problem which I know they are already looking at with stats on food and even gear is the Physical Level system. While it may seem great being able to put points into stats how you want them, this can cause huge differences in people's stats 100+ points in some cases, so they have had to tone down their effectiveness but then this harms the stats on gear and food. Equipping that +5 STR ring isn't going to make much difference when you already have 150 STR at base. Yes I know that people will say well you use gear and food to make up for stats you lack but that will not stop people trying to abuse the system. If the stats worked how they should then if I put everything into STR and DEX (supposed to help ACC) I should be able to hit for a huge amount of damage, then don't forget to pile on even more STR and DEX with gear and food and it gets really out of control.

If SE made the caps lower so you couldn't put 150+ into one stat say they made it 100 max to try and encourage people to spread them a little more evenly, then maybe that might work but then it kind of defeats the purpose of the system. I personally would prefer to have stats tied to each class that grow automatically per rank. Then once you hit cap have a merit point style system so you can add to them, but for the sake of balance you can only add a total of 10-20% per stat. So if at Rank 50 your MRD had 100 STR then fully merited STR would make it 120. That would make a fully merited player do 20% more damage than a none merited in simple terms. Obviously there would be a lot more factors in this such as gear and food, but as a base I think that is fair and would keep things balanced.

[Drakong]

All these ideas are great. Keep it up. Although the classes reminds me, sounds like "Secret of Mana" class system.

[Rentahamster]

I have often complained about the fact that my MRD is now pretty much retired now it has hit R50 ; ; I would love to be able to help people who are close to Rank 50 grind those last few levels and still be rewarded for the time I put in, and a system like the Merit Point system would do that.

Yes, I agree. I would like some way to be able to feel like helping my friends grind SP when I'm already rank 50 is not a waste of time. I think this could be accomplished in 3 ways:

1. Merit Points.

2. Let your SP bar fill up to 99,999/100,000

3. My adjustments to how the death penalty is implemented.
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...ll=1#post33989

New Take on Death Penalty:

All SP that you gain as a battle class also contributes to fill up a separate rank up bar that has 5 tiers: rank 1 - 5.

Each rank takes 20,000 SP to reach, so to reach Rank 5, you'd need to accumulate 100,000 SP as any combination of battle classes without dying.

There are six bonus buffs that you can choose from: +5% atk, +5% def, +5% m.atk, +5% m.def, +5% eva, +5% acc, -10%MP cost, +10%TP gain, +2%SP gain

At Rank 4, you can choose one. At Rank 5, you can choose two, and you also get some sort of visual enhancement to your character to indicate your lack of dying. You can change your buffs around at anytime, but there is a 30 min cooldown.

If you die:
You lose 2 ranks
You lose 3 anima
You are inflicted with Weakness

If you die and get Raised:
You lose 1 rank
You are inflicted with Weakness

Again, I want the number of Rank 5 status people to be rare, and to actually be an indicator of skill, because it's hard to earn, and takes the same amount of effort to reach as going from class rank 49 to 50. That way, losing your rank 5 status is also a bit of a sting.

[AlexiaKidd]

Rentahamster - I like your death penalty idea a lot, that is really great. I really hope they add something like that it is much better than the current system of which you have no fear of death really and not as harsh as FFXI with the EXP loss but somewhere in-between as you are only losing your bonus. So while you are losing something it is not like you could de-lvl your class.

Good job ^^

[Rentahamster]

Rentahamster - I like your death penalty idea a lot, that is really great. I really hope they add something like that it is much better than the current system of which you have no fear of death really and not as harsh as FFXI with the EXP loss but somewhere in-between as you are only losing your bonus. So while you are losing something it is not like you could de-lvl your class.

Good job ^^

Thanks

One of the things that I hear FFXI players saying is that they enjoyed having to grind, even at max rank, so that they have a buffer to prevent de-leveling. After they'd die they would have to find a party and grind XP for a little while to get their buffer back, and they enjoyed this for some reason.

The system I outlined would allow for that same kind of experience without punishing those players who do not find the same kinds of activities so enjoyable.

[Rydin]

I love this thread... really good ideas...

My LS and I have been talking FOREVER about having advanced jobs that unlock from your main class..... we LOVE it...
I think most people would really enjoy this idea....
The only place we disagreed, or more accurately, couldn't decide on the right way, was what to do with classes after you unlock jobs

Some say the classes should stop at 50 and the jobs should have a completely separate set of ranks
And even with that, some say the ranks should start at 1 and your have to grind the job all the way up
Some say the Job starts at 1, but feels more like 51
Some say the Job should just be R51
Some say each class should have to choose between a dark job and a light job
An interesting note is some saying on top of this, they should introduce jobs down the line that require more than 1 class to be leveled, thats always interesting...

To Dylan, that would be a good idea from launch, but if people have already hit 50, it would be hard to make jobs that start at 35 and gain skills from 35-50... At this point, there are enough people at 50 (I know not everyone, but quite a few) to warrant the jobs starting there

It really made our day when Yoshi hinted at the advanced job system.... He didn't go into detail so speculation went WILD.... but this really feels like a god way to do it...

[AlexiaKidd]

Rentahamster

I was one of the FFXI players ^^ I wouldn't say I enjoyed it though but I didn't see the problem as I always took my buffer to cap so it rolled over to merit points. I do however understand that other players would switch straight to merit points and level 75 gear or whatever and then when they died get really angry about de-levelling and having no level 74 gear, but I would just think well that's your fault for not having a buffer =P

When in grind parties on FFXI when it got late and you wanted to log but you were so close to the next level so stuck it out, you would get it then think hmm I better get another 2k EXP or something in case I die on the way back. That really shouldn't be something you have to worry about.

I think a system like your's is better for everyone as you shouldn't really need to have to keep levelling to have a buffer incase you die and it would be nice to reward players who take extra care to avoid dying.