[SPOILERS] Stormblood Ending

[Belhi]

The only people we know of that were privy to her history were her aunt, brother, husband, the one Imperial soldier, and Gosetsu. We don't even know if the brothel owner knew. Her wanting to torture an entire nation to death because of a handful of people is absolutely insane.

I would have to rewatch the cutscene with her but I understood it as her circumstances being pretty well known. I didn't think she was at a brothel either. I though she was sold off and married off to an abusive older man who was well known for his treatment over her. Her view is kind of twisted. Though the underlying drive is vengeance in a way, I think its also is a case of basically making others suffer her fate. In her view, the way the world is you are either the abuser or the abused. Right or wrong, justice and honor, all that stuff, is all just empty words.

Its twisted and crazy but she is a pretty broken person. Regardless of anything else, it was a system the Domans accepted that created her. That is why Hein says at the end that he will remember her words. He understands it was the Doman's own acceptance, for the sake of their own safety, of cruelty done to others that created her. To talk to her about doing the Justice and right and wrong after allowing her to suffer is hypocritical.

Again, that doesn't excuse what she has done but she does have some basis for her insane hatred. The fact she doesn't seem to hate the Garleans is also telling considering it was under Garlean rule her treatment happened. It makes me suspect she, and probably a lot raised under garlean rule, are taught not to question Garlemald. However there is a twisted logic to her viewpoint. Its kind of like a insanely, wrathful jealousy.

At least that is how I took it.

[Vayanne]

I didn't think she was at a brothel either.

She was sold to a pleasure house after her husband's death to settle his debts.
https://youtu.be/r-14h5jQFqg?t=559

[Belhi]

She was sold to a pleasure house after her husband's death to settle his debts.
https://youtu.be/r-14h5jQFqg?t=559

Oh I forgot that. Anyway, just goes to add another layer to it.

[SaitoHikari]

I've been wondering something about the whole Resonant project. Isn't it kind of established that a natural Echo would essentially grant you immunity from being tempered because you're one of Hydaleyn's chosen in some way? Resonance isn't something that's exactly bestowed. That's probably the big difference between the Echo and being a Resonant. But then again, we have to consider old information, thinking back to what Elidibus hinted in the 2.x series (and the whole point of seeing that Sahagin performing body jumps each time he 'died' before he was absorbed into Leviathan), and what Lahabrea was talking about with the whole Hydaleyn putting up barriers thing during 3.x.

I don't believe for a second that the Garleans found out about what the Echo is truly capable of on their own, much less how to artificially recreate it. My guess is that the Ascians taught them something about utilizing the Echo (it's also especially important to note that since pure-blooded Garleans cannot use magic, which also implies that natural echo-blessed Garleans simply do not exist), but would keep them enough in the dark to exploit a vulnerability for their own ends later on. Fordola is most likely going to end up being a prime example of this in some way.

[Daralii]

I've been wondering something about the whole Resonant project. Isn't it kind of established that a natural Echo would essentially grant you immunity from being tempered because you're one of Hydaleyn's chosen in some way?

Zenos suggests that the Echo doesn't grant immunity to tempering, but that it makes you capable of it, and your influence is greater than any primal's. It's how he takes control of a primal powerful enough to create planetoids. It's possible that it's just the ravings of a madman or Ascian lies, but we don't know for certain.

[Belhi]

I don't think the Echo comes from Hydealyn. After all the Ascians all seem to have the echo. Rather I think it has more to do with aetheric nature of the soul. If Zenos is even close to being correct the reason tempering doesn't work isn't simply immunity. Its that the Echo user's soul is simply to powerful for a primal to taint. Rather he seems to suggest, and from the final fight seems to be at least somewhat accurate, in assuming that an Echo user can actually force their will on a Primal, being the stronger Aetheric body.

Honestly we don't know enough about the Resonant and how they compare to natural echo users. Natural echo users don't seem to have noticeable physiological changes when they use the echo which te Resonant seem to if the eye thing is anything to go by.

[Belhi]

Strictly speaking Anima Weapons are still a long way from reaching the stage where they can be produced in any number. The technique needs to be refined and alternative methods for achieving particularly parts of the process need to be found. After all, not every potential customer is going to be able to go to the lengths we did to create and nurture the things. I feel pretty confident they are canon.

Cant speak for the Zodiak weapons but honestly that is one of those quests I would really favour some clarification on how exactly it worked lore wise. I don't think we were literally feeding the souls of our enemies to our weapons. Fundimentally it seemed more about absorbing the high latent Aether you see in a battle.

[Alleo]

@Belhi: Especially since we go into certain fates and dungeons to kill certain bosses again for one Zodiak step which is kinda impossible in lore, since we already killed them once. So yeah I am not sure if we truly should start to take these things as canon. And even if we take them as canon this would make it one shady thing that the WoL did on their own will.

And the concept of a soul is a bit strange in this game anyway. Its just some kind of aether since Moen and Papalymo used theirs to help us. So yeah would be nice to get a post about the thoughts of the designers of these quest lines..because I am not really sure why it was necessary to use souls in this. x)

Zenos suggests that the Echo doesn't grant immunity to tempering, but that it makes you capable of it, and your influence is greater than any primal's. It's how he takes control of a primal powerful enough to create planetoids. It's possible that it's just the ravings of a madman or Ascian lies, but we don't know for certain.

I must have missed this ingame (or the German dialog was again different) but was it really said that its not a shield against tempering? I mean this goes against anything we know ingame and our shield against Lakshimi also goes against this. Also we saw with Ifrit what will happen with those without the echo so it must protect us from something. It might just be that on top of not being tempered by them, one could overpower them with it and control them too.

[Daralii]

I must have missed this ingame (or the German dialog was again different) but was it really said that its not a shield against tempering? I mean this goes against anything we know ingame and our shield against Lakshimi also goes against this. Also we saw with Ifrit what will happen with those without the echo so it must protect us from something. It might just be that on top of not being tempered by them, one could overpower them with it and control them too.

In English at least, he says something like "Does it truly protect you from a primal's tempering? Or does it mean your influence is greater than theirs?" I'd have to rewatch the cutscene for the exact dialogue.

[Alleo]

In English at least, he says something like "Does it truly protect you from a primal's tempering? Or does it mean your influence is greater than theirs?" I'd have to rewatch the cutscene for the exact dialogue.

Thanks for the info.

Well I am just not sure if we should trust Zenos on this, since we dont know how many good information they have about the echo. They do not believe in any kind of gods so technically Hydaelyn does not exit for them so maybe its their interpretation of it. (And it does sound a bit grander that one is immune because they have the stronger will. So maybe they like that explanation better)

But the question remains: when did he learn? Until we know that, it's not fair to blame anyone but her family, who definitely knew.

Exactly. And I just cant believe that the whole of Doma was in this. At the same time this was quite some years ago thus most of the adult ones from that time are elderly people right now..so all the younger people she killed had nothing to do with that. So yes even if some more people knew about this, it does not change the fact that she enjoyed it and took it out on people that were nothing more than children when it happened to her.

Maybe there was a spy in Yotsuyus army that learned about her history or maybe she herself made it known in one of her speeches.

@Belhi: I am quite sure that we do understand her past but this does not change the fact that she did commit horrible things and liked it. And even if she herself sees whole Doma at fault for this, it does not mean that we have to see the world through her eyes and agree with that. (Not that I am saying that you are saying that) And lets be honest, a society where things like that are not happening anymore is more like an utopia because in the end you will never be able to truly stop such things if they are happening behind closed doors. Hien might try to change things but as long as each human being has their free will, things like that will still happen.

@Theodric: Were exactly did we state that Doma is a flawless state? We just want to point out that its not good to say that the whole people in Doma are responsible for Yotsuyu thus should not suffer under it. And since we dont know how many even knew about this, its even worse to say that anyone might be at fault and that the old Doma was just bad. We simply dont know this.