The boring mage of red

[Mindiori]

I'm very happy to have a simple job. There are plenty of alternatives if you want more complication in your dps jobs.

Not every job needs to be the same difficulty/complication level. Some people are less skilled, or just don't enjoy doing the gymnastics other jobs take. HW took away the only simple job when they added enochian, so it's nice they added an alternative.

So please don't try to take away the single easy dps job, you have 8 others you can play of varying complexity if this one is too simple for you.

I know that player skill varies but all too often I feel like this works both ways. I.e 'I like a class that takes zero effort what so ever, so you should just accept it'.

In reality there seems to be no common ground between the opinions. Mine is that this game was already on the 'far too easy' side and to hear people defend its simplicity now is damn right ludicrous to me (personally), because I enjoy a challenge. Having too much respect for people generally (believe it or not) I refuse to believe that anything in this game can be remotely considered hard at all. With the removal of so many stance requirements, dots or otherwise the early game seems tedious and the late game by all accounts ive heard a shell of its former self.

Maybe as many have remarked, this genre or type of game isn't for people like me anymore. So don't read the post as if I can't accept various points of view.

I just think its a shame that I can't have a challenging red mage, or in fact any class at all that I would like - because they are all hilariously easy now. And my opinion might as well not be given at all :/

[Tila]

I know that player skill varies but all too often I feel like this works both ways. I.e 'I like a class that takes zero effort what so ever, so you should just accept it'.

In reality there seems to be no common ground between the opinions. Mine is that this game was already on the 'far too easy' side and to hear people defend its simplicity now is damn right ludicrous to me (personally), because I enjoy a challenge. Having too much respect for people generally (believe it or not) I refuse to believe that anything in this game can be remotely considered hard at all. With the removal of so many stance requirements, dots or otherwise the early game seems tedious and the late game by all accounts ive heard a shell of its former self.

Maybe as many have remarked, this genre or type of game isn't for people like me anymore. So don't read the post as if I can't accept various points of view.

I just think its a shame that I can't have a challenging red mage, or in fact any class at all that I would like - because they are all hilariously easy now. And my opinion might as well not be given at all :/

There are plenty of options for harder classes at the moment, except tanks. Are you sure you're not just frustrated that the job you wanted to be difficult isnt?

[Mindiori]

There are plenty of options for harder classes at the moment, except tanks. Are you sure you're not just frustrated that the job you wanted to be difficult isnt?

I don't play the class, in all honesty I've mostly quit - because the game is now even easier and enough is enough for me.

But if that was my opinion, what exactly would be wrong with that? I grow tired of peoples imposition of simplicity. Someone can't handle something about as challenging as a trip to the bathroom thats on them. I fail to see why simplicity should be enforced on those who wish something different.

People are notorious for saying 'there are harder games out there so go to one of those'. Charming how that sort of thing is one sided. In short then yes, it would have been nice if I found something remotely difficult and yes - I accept I am but one opinion. I however maintain, that games were supposed to appeal to all sorts of players. Skilled and less so. Not appease people who can barely handle a single combo chain without complaining.

Thats why I said there is no solution. People think this game is super challenging as perhaps you do? Fine. I've no problem with that. I however too take a bit of an issue with people continually saying 'no everything is fine, go and play something else.' Because as fine as that may be for them, its still selfish and one sided.

If you are happy with red mage great. If I'm not - great. Its just a pity people these days don't enjoy any kind of challenge whatsoever and when they do - they find themselves subject to bullying (not saying that was your intention here). Good day.

[Tila]

I don't play the class, in all honesty I've mostly quit - because the game is now even easier and enough is enough for me.

But if that was my opinion, what exactly would be wrong with that? I grow tired of peoples imposition of simplicity. Someone can't handle something about as challenging as a trip to the bathroom thats on them. I fail to see why simplicity should be enforced on those who wish something different.

People are notorious for saying 'there are harder games out there so go to one of those'. Charming how that sort of thing is one sided. In short then yes, it would have been nice if I found something remotely difficult and yes - I accept I am but one opinion. I however maintain, that games were supposed to appeal to all sorts of players. Skilled and less so. Not appease people who can barely handle a single combo chain without complaining.

Thats why I said there is no solution. People think this game is super challenging as perhaps you do? Fine. I've no problem with that. I however too take a bit of an issue with people continually saying 'no everything is fine, go and play something else.' Because as fine as that may be for them, its still selfish and one sided.

If you are happy with red mage great. If I'm not - great. Its just a pity people these days don't enjoy any kind of challenge whatsoever and when they do - they find themselves subject to bullying (not saying that was your intention here). Good day.

No it goes both ways. I know people who wanted to like NIN but felt the class was to rapid and/or the ninjutsu to much to keep track of, and my answer to them was: play an easier class then.

Is the class to easy? Play a harder one then. Class to hard? Play an easier one.

Whats selfish is insisting all classes be complicated. Its not selfish to say "Dont like the easy class? Play a hard one then".

[Thunda_Cat_SMASH]

No it goes both ways. I know people who wanted to like NIN but felt the class was to rapid and/or the ninjutsu to much to keep track of, and my answer to them was: play an easier class then.

Is the class to easy? Play a harder one then. Class to hard? Play an easier one.

Whats selfish is insisting all classes be complicated. Its not selfish to say "Dont like the easy class? Play a hard one then".

The only remotely complicated job in the game is SAM and even then that only comes down to resource management. It would certainly be nice if there actually were complex classes in the game though, wouldn't it? Because to be bloody frank, there really isn't, outside of maybe Samurai.

[Silverquick]

You can forgive a barely used tool as an 'option' in a single-player game in which a RDM was designed as a job for high mid-game flexibilityand growth, but ultimately replaced by endgame for optimal performance.

Not in an MMO.

No job ought to tie in an such a seemingly integral aspect only to make ornamental use of it.

Again... how is that different than any other Final Fantasy Red mage?

Its quite literally always been that way. For the Red Mage Sword was just ornamental and for show.

The only time I can recall it ever being really used was for enemies that were either Magic Immune or when you were out of Spells. That's quite literally it.

There was a phase in the original FF on Nintendo where you had the Excaliber sword and could do decent damage, but otherwise sword was only used when you had no magic left.

And in THIS game, I'd like to be able to say RDM isn't doing major DPS, but it really is... its doing top rate DPS.

Its literally functioning exactly like you would expect it to, and its a fun job to play on top of that.

[Inuk9]

I really don't like the fact RDM has so many equal skills with different animations. Verthunder=Veraero, Verfire=verstone, verholy=verflare.

The only difference is the type of mana you get by casting those.

The only remotely complicated job in the game is SAM and even then that only comes down to resource management. It would certainly be nice if there actually were complex classes in the game though, wouldn't it? Because to be bloody frank, there really isn't, outside of maybe Samurai.

To say that, you must have all jobs at 70 already. If not, please shut up.

[Duelle]

Even in FFXI RDM's job wasnt to melee. You had your melee buffs, and that was it. You then sat there and melee attacked during the very rare occasions you werent constantly casting. Many RDM flat out didnt melee and would switch to staffs.

Seems you forgot that the circumstances and design mistakes made in XI are part of what pigeonholed RDM into the refreshbot we know and hate.

There's a lot of ifs involved. If Refresh hadn't been exclusive to RDM, there would have been more reason to melee and cast spells. If gear swaps hadn't taken over the whole game, a RDM geared for melee could have taken part opening skillchains for the heavier melee like WAR, DRK and SAM without being expected to also babysit the whole party (bonus being that you'd have a melee that can not only open SCs, but also Magic Burst them). If Haste had been AoE or instant, that's one less spell to take away from melee uptime. If people didn't overhunt, RDM's combat-oriented facets wouldn't have been rendered worthless by level correction. If we had more readily-available healer jobs than WHM, RDM would have never been pushed into replacing them post-TAU.

As I said, Enspells was a step in the right direction. That, sadly, got throttled by overhunting and the terrible leveling system for skills.

Once more, you wanted it to be something its never been.

I'm following an idea to its logical conclusion, since I understand that console RPG class design and MMO class design are two entirely different beasts, with the latter providing opportunities and direction for growth that the former cannot.

So I'll ask again, are you going to tell me that a system where a RDM is comboing melee skills and white/black magic spells does not play into the hybrid nature of the job?

[Hyrist]

I'm satisfied with Red Mage in its current incarnation. There's not much else to be said other than those who are disenfranchised by the current one are in the vast minority and are putting the enjoyment of the majority at risk by fronting their intentions as anything more than personal preference.

Most if not all arguments to push RDM into a Melee-primary role is done so in defiance of the job's historical methodology, and FFXIV's own design on multiple fronts. Arguments to try to discredit these two concrete facts have been vapid at best, as counter-examples are littered across Final Fantasy's rich history.

I am all for adjustments to increase the Job's viability or to add more depth. However, I am pleased with its design philosophy and would not have it stomped upon - when there are other jobs that could better suit the design philosophies of those who are pushing to change Red Mage into what it has never been.

[YokeM]

I`ve said it before and I will say it again: The Job feels unfinished!
As it stands right now, the melee feels like just another cooldown you use every ~40 seconds. As Duelle has stated, you could replace it with a powerful spellcombo and would hardly feel any difference to RDM playstyle.

I`m very happy, that so many people feel RDM would need some changes. And there is a very easy solution for most problems:

Let us fill the mana gauge faster!

1. This would solve the overall boringness. Spending 6 - 8 GCDs casting then switch to melee. The experience between range casting and melee fighting is entirely different. Having to addapt to both and having to readily switch would really spice things up.

2. Integration of the sword. There you have it. You would actually use your sword instead of just ramming the crystal into the hilt.

And stop complaining that RDM isn`t melee. He should fucking put his sword away if he isn`t.