Is Onslaught a joke?

[Ogulbuk]

Didn't forget as much as I didn't notice that mechanic, as I said, only gazed at the job. But all this tells me is that the SAM gap closer is also terrible. It sounds like higher DPS to not attack for about a GCD worth of time than to waste resources rushing in, for both jobs.

[Tondier]

Honestly, I think everyone should hold off their complaints about the new changes until they hit lvl 70 and feel like they've got a good idea on how their fully developed job's are supposed to be used. Complaining now before you guys are lvl 70 is the same as complaining about something you don't even fully understand yet and haven't given yourselves the chance to play around with....

I'm at level 70 and have been for a few days now. It still feels bad. Want to move the goalpost any further? Maybe a few more days, a few more weeks, or how about we wait until the next patch before we're allowed to give our impressions?

[saber_alter]

On paper, onslaught and upheaval seem like plunge and spirits within but with costs tacked so they have at least one thing to differentiate them from their origins.

hell, the only thing onslaught has over plunge is it has a 15 second cd over plunge's 30. upheaval on the other hand's only benefit is that it ignores defiance.

[MagiusNecros]

I'm at level 70 and have been for a few days now. It still feels bad. Want to move the goalpost any further? Maybe a few more days, a few more weeks, or how about we wait until the next patch before we're allowed to give our impressions?

Wait till next expansion.

[Argyle_Darkheart]

hell, the only thing onslaught has over plunge is it has a 15 second cd over plunge's 30. upheaval on the other hand's only benefit is that it ignores defiance.

Onslaught also generates quite a bit of enmity; it's pretty good for snap aggro.

[Shippuu]

It's a similar cost at 10 Kenki. Using both the out/in dashes will cost you 20, which you'll not only need to land a full 3 step combo, you'll also have to make sure you get the positional on the 3rd or you'll need a fourth! At 10 for the dash in, you'll need one or two GCD to recover from the loss, depending on what step you're on in your combo, you're landing a positional, or stabbing with Yuki. Both dashes also only deal 100 damage, but they save time on movement if you need to either dodge an AoE or quickly get to an add to burst down.

It is not a similar cost at 10 Kenki because SAM has many ways to generate Kenki, as every single move that uses the GCD generates Kenki, on top of being able to convert Sen into Kenki, and build it without a target in combat with Meditate. You talk about 5 Kenki = 60 potency, so a SAM's Gyoten is indeed at a DPS loss of only 20 potency, compared to the WAR equivalent, where 10 Gauge = 100 Potency, as Fell Cleave is 500 potency for 50 gauge, so you're losing 100 potency. On top of this, your dash out, dash in example is incredibly flawed as such. Using simply Yaten and then Gyoten is 20 Kenki for 200 potency, at a 40 potency loss, but you completely ignore the fact Yaten enhances their ranged attack Enpi, boosting it to 300 potency, on top of Enpi generating 10 Kenki. So for 1 GCD, when properly using Yaten, Enpi, Gyoten, you've only spent 10 Kenki, and done a combined 500 potency of damage.

You're trying to compare SAM and WAR, which is fine because SAM basically has the same resource system (on top of also having WAR's old stack resource system in a slightly different way). But SAM's version of it is far, far better than what WAR got stuck with in every single way, and has virtually zero abilities that are as wasteful as WAR's Onslaught.

[Lyth]

Fell Cleave is not 500 potency for 50 IB. As a GCD ability, you have to factor in the opportunity cost of the GCD combo action that it replaces. To illustrate:

Replacing HS:
50 IB = 500 - 150
50 IB = 350

Replacing Maim:
50 IB = 500 - 190 - 10 IB
60 IB = 310
50 IB = 258

Replacing SP:
50 IB = 500 - 250 - 20 IB
70 IB = 250
50 IB = 179

Onslaught is 20 IB for 100 potency (equivalently, 50 IB for 250 potency), so the only combo action on which Fell Cleave is more resource efficient is when it results in one less HS or Maim. In fact, Onslaught's relative efficiency increases under both Berserk and IR, to the point where it becomes more resource efficient even when Fell Cleave replaces Maim. If it were possible to fit one more GCD into Berserk, you'd actually end up replacing one FC in your IR window with Onslaught x2, because the last FC now replaces Maim instead of HS in the window. As I said before, the balance is pretty tight.

If they wanted to let you to use Onslaught on recast as a potency gain, they would have. That's what Upheaval is for. Onslaught requires you to trade off potency against uptime.