Shield Oath makes Sheltron useless.

[Shurrikhan]

Moving generation away from holy spirit and into passive generation devalues and relegates the importance of holy spirit away from a rotational necessity for defense and resource generation to a dps gain (and reduces the opportunity cost of using your mana to heal instead).

I guess, there you have it then. I guess I prefer that.

Without a Ranged (since they stupidly can't take Diversion - seriously wtf?), or having both a Ninja and a Ranged, I open in Sword Oath with spare gauge from trash Requiescat, HS 6-7 times throughout the duration, Fast, FoF, Riot, SoC, SW, GB, keep tri-comboing with 2 more DSs worked in before the next Requiescat as not to overcap mana or gauge (because it's that much higher in Sword Oath), and I don't remotely lose threat, while getting far more DPS in the bargain.

On the off chance I have some bursty DPS who cannot or refuse to use enmity-reduction skills, I'll open in Shield Oath for roughly the same. If they're really bursty, I may have to open with a FoF RoH combo in Shield Oath, into GB, RoH, RoH, Fast, Riot, Sword Oath, Goring, late Requiscat, HS-spam.

But at no point is that bonus 100-120 gauge going to be worth the damage for me. I'd be losing 25-30 just over the case times, and the remainder bonus mana from the 2 bonus Shelltron, less than two HS in value, cannot bring me from 2 spare casts per minute to 5, which would be needed not to clip my last combo or delay my next Requiescat.

Admittedly, fewer RoH combos needed = more Riot Blade and Royal Authority, but that's a good 63 potency you're missing per GCD atop 25% of each skill itself... I still don't think it's going to close that gap, nor do I see why it would need to do so, let alone through HS.

Maybe I've just had too good of luck with 67/69 dungeon grind speedruns so far, which has cut me a lot more slack enmity-wise due to Shadewalker/Smokescreen or Diversion, but the optimal rotation doesn't seem to lie where you've listed as 'developer intended', at least in that context. And, honestly, given that most seems ultimately to come down to speedrunning... what exactly makes something inferior in how it affects clear times more optimal?

[Kerwin]

Sheltron does need rework. Casting holy spirit just causes to much mana strain on the PLD just to get enough oath to block a heavy tank buster.

As often as Susano does his water cleave hit would I like to pop Shelton for each one. Sadly I don't get enough oath and I end up taking the brunt of the attack.

Oath needs to be generated faster in shield oath or Shelton needs adjustment.

[Sir_Hermes]

may I just add if no one has already, the block rate on the 310 shield is almost 2.5x the Alex(S) 270 shield... and now that you can block magic and physical attacks ,the blocks will roll in, let some time pass before saying you want things changed.

[Faytte]

may I just add if no one has already, the block rate on the 310 shield is almost 2.5x the Alex(S) 270 shield... and now that you can block magic and physical attacks ,the blocks will roll in, let some time pass before saying you want things changed.

Generally block rates are adjusted by your level however, so a level 70 310 shield block rate being 2.5x the Alex shields block rate might mean it comes out to being the same actual % of attacks blocked. This is just speaking in theory of course, no actual idea what it is in the end.

[Kyt]

Sheltron does need rework. Casting holy spirit just causes to much mana strain on the PLD just to get enough oath to block a heavy tank buster.

As often as Susano does his water cleave hit would I like to pop Shelton for each one. Sadly I don't get enough oath and I end up taking the brunt of the attack.

Oath needs to be generated faster in shield oath or Shelton needs adjustment.

Mana strain? Holy spirit is embedded into our rotation now. You're casting 5 holy spirit per minute minimum, which gives you 2 shelltrons per minute, which is the same as HW. There should be nothing else you're using your mana on. Clemency is a highly situational ability that should be used when things are going poorly, or when you're offtanking, and you aren't using flash if you're tanking a boss for the most part. What else do you need your mana for?

[Furious]

I guess, there you have it then. I guess I prefer that.

Without a Ranged (since they stupidly can't take Diversion - seriously wtf?), or having both a Ninja and a Ranged, I open in Sword Oath with spare gauge from trash Requiescat, HS 6-7 times throughout the duration, Fast, FoF, Riot, SoC, SW, GB, keep tri-comboing with 2 more DSs worked in before the next Requiescat as not to overcap mana or gauge (because it's that much higher in Sword Oath), and I don't remotely lose threat, while getting far more DPS in the bargain.

On the off chance I have some bursty DPS who cannot or refuse to use enmity-reduction skills, I'll open in Shield Oath for roughly the same. If they're really bursty, I may have to open with a FoF RoH combo in Shield Oath, into GB, RoH, RoH, Fast, Riot, Sword Oath, Goring, late Requiscat, HS-spam.

But at no point is that bonus 100-120 gauge going to be worth the damage for me. I'd be losing 25-30 just over the case times, and the remainder bonus mana from the 2 bonus Shelltron, less than two HS in value, cannot bring me from 2 spare casts per minute to 5, which would be needed not to clip my last combo or delay my next Requiescat.

Admittedly, fewer RoH combos needed = more Riot Blade and Royal Authority, but that's a good 63 potency you're missing per GCD atop 25% of each skill itself... I still don't think it's going to close that gap, nor do I see why it would need to do so, let alone through HS.

Maybe I've just had too good of luck with 67/69 dungeon grind speedruns so far, which has cut me a lot more slack enmity-wise due to Shadewalker/Smokescreen or Diversion, but the optimal rotation doesn't seem to lie where you've listed as 'developer intended', at least in that context. And, honestly, given that most seems ultimately to come down to speedrunning... what exactly makes something inferior in how it affects clear times more optimal?

I found this post incredibly hard to follow the point of, but what I think you are saying is that you.. do more damage by staying in sword oath rather than using shield oath and generating more gauge > mana > hs?

When you're in sword oath you're taking 20% more damage at all times than when you're in shield oath. Assuming you care about that 20% more damage reduction, you probably also care about having more holy spirits available and more shield gauge. I don't really understand why you're talking about optimal dps rotations and considering whether or not the fact that sitting in your damage reduction stance gets your more holy spirits, and whether that is worth doing - it shouldn't be, because you're not optimising defense or threat but damage.

[Kerwin]

Mana strain? Holy spirit is embedded into our rotation now. You're casting 5 holy spirit per minute minimum, which gives you 2 shelltrons per minute, which is the same as HW. There should be nothing else you're using your mana on. Clemency is a highly situational ability that should be used when things are going poorly, or when you're offtanking, and you aren't using flash if you're tanking a boss for the most part. What else do you need your mana for?

I'm looking to strengthen my DEFENSIVE abilities, and that's reserving my mana for Clemency. I don't want to burn it on Holy Spirit as a main tank (Especially with a huge damage reduction anyways from shield oath.)

I had a good idea though. Seeing how Shield Oath does not generate a lot of Oath Gage in per say a primal 1 on 1 fight why don't we have CLEMENCY generate Oath Gage as well? This will strengthen the role of a DEFENSIVE main tank.

Thoughts?

[Reynhart]

Seeing how Shield Oath does not generate a lot of Oath Gage in per say a primal 1 on 1 fight why don't we have CLEMENCY generate Oath Gage as well? This will strengthen the role of a DEFENSIVE main tank.

Can this be copyright claimed ? No ? Oh, crap...

Possible "fix". Make casting any Divine Spell increase the Oath Gauge by 20. So, Holy Spirit and Clemency.

Thoughts?

On top of increasing our defensive role, it would also make sheltron usage less clunky before Holy Spirit.

[Ragology]

In 3.0, war could gain free stacks of wrath/abandon by using certain abilities like Raw intuition. Maybe they could work this sort of thing into Paladin so that using stuff like tempered will and cover would grand some gauge?

[Reynhart]

In 3.0, war could gain free stacks of wrath/abandon by using certain abilities like Raw intuition. Maybe they could work this sort of thing into Paladin so that using stuff like tempered will and cover would grand some gauge?

After that was especially removed from WAR ?! You really want them to hate PLD more