PGL during 1.19

[Penguin]

Or your pugs are really really bad...
I dont see a big difference in numbers on carraways parser between classes, and Keen flurry makes a huge difference in Pug's damage output.
Dont tell me that you think that archer or Marauder can score higher vs a single enemy.

I don't personally know how high dps a Pugilist can do but i wouldn't say they were that much higher than MRD if higher at all, ARC i personally thought was very weak until i tested it tonight and after testing i wouldn't be surprised if ARC could keep up with MRD with the correct rotation.

The point is if you are doing 9-10k damage to ifrit per person you are either running with 3 damage dealers who are all doing 30+ dps which would be impressive and is why i said id love to see a parse of your breakdowns, or you are running with 4-5 damage dealers and your fights are lasting 10+ minutes, meaning the reason for the increased damage from each person is because of the amount of health Ifrit regenerates during the fight.

Our 5-6 minute kills generally put our damage dealers at around 6-8k damage per person when running with 5 damage dealers since the faster you kill the less health ifrit regenerates during the fight, i could post more older parses if you require proof of my claims but we rarely if ever see people with 9-10k damage total done to Ifrit unless we did badly.

Also Twenty Two (the person who played Pugilist on that kill) it was his first time ever attempting to play Pugilist on Ifrit which is mainly why he did the lowest.

[tachikoma]

Or your pugs are really really bad...
I dont see a big difference in numbers on carraways parser between classes, and Keen flurry makes a huge difference in Pug's damage output.
Dont tell me that you think that archer or Marauder can score higher vs a single enemy.

lol the total dmg output has to do with speed of kills and number of jumps not the skill of the players I've done over 12k total dmg but that was a god awful 10+min. fight. and my dps was around 18

ps you should upgrade your parser Meleena: http://www.bluegarterls.com/forums/topic?id=8

I spent a lot of time fine tuning this parser and it has the ability to select a specific target like "Ifrit" this way you don't get over-inflated DPS/DMG numbers by hitting the nails etc. Its easy to add 1-2k extra dmg from nails alone.

[tachikoma]

Oh and really impressive peng the last run I saw an arc on ifrit was around 6dps...

[NoctisUmbra]

That pug should do more damage or at least equal to the lancer.
I have parsed many ifrit fights myself, PUG always comes second or First DD in my party.



EDIT:
Sorry I Just read this part.
Yeah ok that explains a lot.

EDIT 2:
Is everyone in this list using Ifrit weapons?

If you're DPS as a PGL is surpassing that of a LNC in your party, that just means the LNC isn't pulling his weight. I don't care how good you are on PGL - you can have a perfect run - a LNC of comparable skill will do higher DPS.

The point is 1.19's PGL or ARC are not nearly as bad as players made them out to be. They are both viable for Ifrit parties. They will not, however, surpass the DPS of a MRD or LNC. Player skill is a key factor here. I've seen LNCs do as low as 3k damage on runs that I topped at 10k.

Also pay mind to the DPS values on parses of Ifrit, not damage done, when comparing to parses of other fights. With Ifrit's regen, the longer the fight the higher the damage. What matters is how much damage you're doing per second.

[Meleena]

Ok I understand what youre all saying but I am sticking to my belief that Pug has better DPS than Mar vs one target if they are both DDing.
For he record yes Our wins usually take 9-10 mins, weve never did a 6 min fight so I was wrong in that.

As I said before, its rare that my pug comes out on top, its usually the lancers that have the upper hand, (I don't dissagree with that) but never a Marauder.

Perhaps you take the tank's DPS in ifrit as an example, cause Tanks don't have to run around avoiding erruptions etc so they can attack more.
I still believe that if you get a Marauder and a Pug to DPS one Target Pug comes easily on top.

I will download your parser Tachicoma thanks.

[carraway]

Ok I understand what youre all saying but I am sticking to my belief that Pug has better DPS than Mar vs one target if they are both DDing.
For he record yes Our wins usually take 9-10 mins, weve never did a 6 min fight so I was wrong in that.

As I said before, its rare that my pug comes out on top, its usually the lancers that have the upper hand, (I don't dissagree with that) but never a Marauder.

Perhaps you take the tank's DPS in ifrit as an example, cause Tanks don't have to run around avoiding erruptions etc so they can attack more.
I still believe that if you get a Marauder and a Pug to DPS one Target Pug comes easily on top.

I will download your parser Tachicoma thanks.

It's a moot point since 1.20 is tomorrow, but I suggest that, for your own benefit as well as your linkshell's, you should try to reorient your perspective on the damage-dealing capabilities of a class. There are two guiding principles to keep in mind:

1. How good is someone at pushing the right buttons at the right time? (skill)
2. What is the absolute damage ceiling of the class he or she is playing?

For most groups and most people, #1 is far more important than #2.

There are two reasons to take a MRD over PGL in 1.19: Maim (the debuff, if used by other DPS in the party correctly, outweighs the benefit of one person, the PGL, doing higher damage with Victimize because of the debuff bonus); and slightly higher auto-attack range to mitigate Sear. Otherwise, honestly, there should be nothing keeping a PGL from rocking 25+ DPS on an Ifrit fight in which he doesn't fly too much. For personal DPS, Victimize can average a lot higher than Maim if more than one or two debuffs are being applied on a regular basis.

The main thing we want to impart to the community is that there's a difference between min/maxing and general practicality. We (my linkshell) are always going to be pushing the boundaries of min/maxing, but practically speaking, just because we bring all LNCs to a fight (or all whatever other class) doesn't mean other people need to do the same thing.

So rock on, PGLs/MNKs.

[ShadowCadja]

For ifrit x5 ARCs speed runs are fun now, ARC is actually fun in ifrit... lol

[Viridiana]

The main thing we want to impart to the community is that there's a difference between min/maxing and general practicality. We (my linkshell) are always going to be pushing the boundaries of min/maxing, but practically speaking, just because we bring all LNCs to a fight (or all whatever other class) doesn't mean other people need to do the same thing.

Lies! Blasphemy and lies!

[Meleena]

There are two reasons to take a MRD over PGL in 1.19: Maim (the debuff, if used by other DPS in the party correctly, outweighs the benefit of one person, the PGL, doing higher damage with Victimize because of the debuff bonus); and slightly higher auto-attack range to mitigate Sear. Otherwise, honestly, there should be nothing keeping a PGL from rocking 25+ DPS on an Ifrit fight in which he doesn't fly too much. For personal DPS, Victimize can average a lot higher than Maim if more than one or two debuffs are being applied on a regular basis.

Both are legit reasons but none of the two are Mar vs Pug DPS related. (I know what do you mean by the whole party DD prespective yeah yeah, I wasn't talking particulary for Ifrit fight).
Maim can't make Marauder DPS higher than Pug IMO.

I know that Pug has a range weakness there, but as long as DPS goes I am 100% possitive thats it is clearly higher than Marauder VS one target (if the target is facing PUG it's higher than Lancer too).

Also ok I am not intrested to go very far and deep about game mechanics, I just like to have a general idea of what happens, (thats why all this parser talk) I made some mistakes in my previous posts but I admitted that I was wrong in those aspects.
My classes were not PLed and Id like to think that I got enough experience in all of them (except Gladiator).
My Fav class may be Pug but I have no trouble admitting that Lancer or Marauder can do better in fights, (after all I use Marauder in Strongholds and Lancer for Ifrit) aside from that I don't need a parser to know that Pug Kills WAY faster a single enemy than Marauder, that should be clear as day.

Anyway let's see what 1.20 will bring into the game.