Seeing Red - A Complete Red Mage Guide

[CU_Giraffe]

It's completely ignoring the first cooldown,

It goes straight from the first cast into the next one regardless of whatever the CD should have been.... so you never actually see what SHOULD have been the first 2.36 cooldown. It's just the 1.8 cast time. It literally ignores the first cooldown.

You're still not correct.

Everytime you hit an action, you trigger the Cast and it's cooldown at the same time. For the first 1.8 seconds, Jolt is casting. The remaining .5 seconds (2.36 - 1.8 = 0.5), you can't trigger another move that is on the GCD because your original move (Jolt) is still on CD. It may seem like it's an instantaneous cast thanks to how moves are put into queue in this game, but it's not. No cooldown is ever ignored when it's a move that's on the GCD, unless there is a Trait/Buff that specifically says it does. In fact, the only time any CD is ignored is if the move is insta-procced i.e. Bloodletter, Low Blow, etc.

Dual Cast does NOT proc a decrease in the GCD. It just doesn't. The only thing that is being ignored is the cast time for your next move (Veraero/thunder/whatever). However, the CD (in this case, a GCD of 2.36) remains as it always does.

So, to reiterate the first point against your claim: Each Dual-Casted combo (jolt > ver-whatever) is TWO moves/potencies across TWO GCDs.

[Silverquick]

You're still not correct.

Everytime you hit an action, you trigger the Cast and it's cooldown at the same time. For the first 1.8 seconds, Jolt is casting. The remaining .5 seconds (2.36 - 1.8 = 0.5), you can't trigger another move that is on the GCD because your original move (Jolt) is still on CD. It may seem like it's an instantaneous cast thanks to how moves are put into queue in this game, but it's not. No cooldown is ever ignored when it's a move that's on the GCD, unless there is a Trait/Buff that specifically says it does. In fact, the only time any CD is ignored is if the move is insta-procced i.e. Bloodletter, Low Blow, etc..

Well I'm sorry to say... what I said... is exactly what I see and tested.

You cast Jolt, and hit it right as the casting time is near the end and it dual casts the next spell. No actual CD... it just goes off instantly.

There's no second CD or rather it completely ignores it. So even though it should have been a 2.36 CD.... it's only 1.8 casting time and the Dual Casted spell goes off.

And I can do it multiple times with the same result. So it isn't some kind of wild guessing.

EDIT: Its entirely possible it functions more like a Proc with a CD.

[Rbstr]

And I can do it multiple times with the same result. So it isn't some kind of wild guessing.

Pretty sure you can't tell the difference between half a second and instant. It's very clear that Jolt's cast time ends, the GCD is still ticking and the aero/thunder only comes out after the GCD expires.

[CU_Giraffe]

You cast Jolt, and hit it right as the casting time is near the end and it dual casts the next spell. No actual CD... it just goes off instantly.

There's no second CD or rather it completely ignores it. So even though it should have been a 2.36 CD.... it's only 1.8 casting time and the Dual Casted spell goes off.

And I can do it multiple times with the same result. So it isn't some kind of wild guessing.

I'm not saying it's wild guessing, I'm saying you may be misinterpreting how the GCD works. You can't do a move on the GCD while the GCD is resetting. RDM is not an exception to this rule. It's just how the game's designed. Maybe a time-table will help explain.

0: Jolt GCD starting
0 - 1.8: Jolt casting
1.8: Jolt cast, Dual Cast proc
1.8 - 2.36: GCD for jolt finishing
2.36: Jolt CD complete, GCD reset, Verthunder cast, GCD starting (thanks to ability queue, this all happens simultaneously)
2.36 - 4.72: GCD resetting (you can't do a GCD move here just like you can't during 1.8 - 2.36, however you can queue it by mashing)
4.72: Repeat from 0

Regardless of what you're testing or what you see, this is what is happening. No CDs are being ignored. Verthunder can't be cast until the GCD for Jolt is completed. The easiest way to tell is by looking at the hotbar actions. Once Jolt is cast, you can still see a little bit of Verthunder's action icon darkened out. You can't cast while that sliver is there. I can see how you may think it's instant cause you're focusing on the battle and it's less than half a second, but the move is only insta-cast once the GCD is reset. Again, the only thing omitted from normal is the cast time of your second skill.

[soslinky]

@Silverquick

I have tested and the result is as the other people have pointed out. A GCD is a GCD, if your cast time is 1.8sec and its GCD is 2.4sec then regardless of Dualcast you will have to wait 2.4sec upon hitting that Jolt button before you can activate the succeeding skill. Perhaps your framerate or ping is horrendous and this is causing you to see the cast time of Jolt being the same with its GCD-- it's not. Please refrain from declaring ocular observations as fact because this leads to misinformation. I have performed Jolt>Veraero/Verthunder and I do feel the delay(as it should, as stated by the actual CT/GCD numbers) before the dualcasted Veraero/Verthunder activates. I can do it multiple times with the same result. So it isn't some kind of wild guessing.

I think you need to brush up on your definition and understanding of Cast Time and Global Cooldown(Recast). Dual cast does not turn Global Cooldown to Instant nor does it reduce it. Having Dual Cast just means that the next spell after Jolt will have no Cast Time but still retain a GCD. Upon hitting the keyboard button you assigned for Veraero/Verthunder, while it does deal damage instantly thanks to Dual Cast, you will still have to wait for the GCD to finish before you can cast the next spell.

[Silverquick]

@Silverquick

I have tested and the result is as the other people have pointed out. A GCD is a GCD, if your cast time is 1.8sec and its GCD is 2.4sec then regardless of Dualcast you will have to wait 2.4sec upon hitting that Jolt button before you can activate the succeeding skill.

Well that's not happening and as I said, I literally did test it. Multiple times.

Are we really sure here that the Dual Cast isn't functioning as a Proc rather than an actual spell with a GCD.

[Parawill]

Well that's not happening and as I said, I literally did test it. Multiple times.

Are we really sure here that the Dual Cast isn't functioning as a Proc rather than an actual spell with a GCD.

Semantics, but really, more or so because it doesn't make sense. Dual Cast is not a proc. It is not a programmed random occurence. It is guaranteed after any hardcasted spell, thus making it not random whatsoever. In addition to this, all Dual Cast does is make the next GCD spell instant. Cast time has nothing to do with the global cooldown as that restricts the number of actions we can do at a specific time frame.

So if we have a GCD of 2.5 seconds and the cast times are 2.5, we can get two skills within the time frame of 5 seconds. If we have a GCD of 2.5 seconds, and our cast times are 1.5, we are still locked within the global cooldown, thus letting us only cast only two skills because 2.5 GCD per skill equates to 5 seconds. If we have no cast time and our GCD is 2.5 seconds, we still can only cast two spells within 5 seconds.

The only thing cast speed does in relevance to the GCD is that Red Mages damage at a different frequency/rate than any other class because they cast into insta-cast frequently, thus they get two skills within cast time + instant cast animation, but are still locked within the 5 second GCD (using the example numbers from above).

[Silverquick]

Semantics, but really, more or so because it doesn't make sense. Dual Cast is not a proc. .

Not necessarily...

If it were treated akin to a proc, and not an actual spell cast with a GCD, it would exhibit the same type of behavior I am seeing.

You could insta-cast immediately after your first spell... and ignore the CD, and set everything into cooldown.

So yes, I think its a very valid.

We may be approaching this from entirely the wrong angle.

[Tide]

Well that's not happening and as I said, I literally did test it. Multiple times.

Are we really sure here that the Dual Cast isn't functioning as a Proc rather than an actual spell with a GCD.

When you cast a spell and follow with a dualcasted instant spell you should be seeing the cooldown pinwheel on the skill icons spin twice. Honestly, if you are still arguing that it isn't doing that then I'm afraid I'm going to need to see a video of you doing your test in order to believe/understand what you are saying is happening.