Please give ARR/HW content life with minimum ilevel

[Bourne_Endeavor]

snip

Wow... Congratulations. You have practically assured no one will ever touch DF again. I wouldn't even consider queuing into it with those draconian punishments in place. It's simply not worth the hassle, especially if I'm not even the one vote abandoning. While I agree the penalty should be harsher, this is taking it so far into the opposite extreme, people would simply run with friends almost exclusively. A simple solution is to change it so the 30 penalty isn't just on the first person. At least in 8 and 24 man content. Either way, it's not a pressing concern if we're honest.

[Crysten]

I AM THE LAW

Whoa, slow down there, Satan. Who pissed in your cereal?

[KisaiTenshi]

Wow... Congratulations. You have practically assured no one will ever touch DF again. I wouldn't even consider queuing into it with those draconian punishments in place. It's simply not worth the hassle, especially if I'm not even the one vote abandoning. While I agree the penalty should be harsher, this is taking it so far into the opposite extreme, people would simply run with friends almost exclusively. A simple solution is to change it so the 30 penalty isn't just on the first person. At least in 8 and 24 man content. Either way, it's not a pressing concern if we're honest.

I was only talking about the 8 and 24-man content. You know, the content that people are babies about not being perfect on. That's where the vast majority of "Abandon"'s come from, and it's because people don't actually want to teach/learn it, they just want to zerg rush it with PUG's

[Vidu]

The problem with adding rewards to old content is for people who have completed the content in the past it just becomes an easy farm. If you have Coils down pat then any rewards become extremely easy to obtain. More over most veteran players will chose to run that old content, particularly ilvl synced, with other veterans who already know the fights so there wouldn't be much benefit to people how haven't seen them before.

Specially with content like Coil or old EX-primal, aka difficult but optional content, I can only say: I've cleared and farmed this when it was relevant. And even if me and some friends recently went back there and tried t1-5 with miniumum ilvl and no echo as challenge, I actually dont want to go back there. I'm done with this content and I'd like that to be okay at some point. I dont want them to turn Coil into a new farm that makes me go back there yet again - yes, yes, I understand how MMOs work and the whole "but new people"-buisness and as far as normal, story-dungeons go I'm completly fine with that argument. As soon as it comes to optional content like EX-primals or even more so coil, I'm a lot more willing to say we dont need to add incentives to re-run this content. Its not content we need - or even should! - fill DF-queues for. Coil isnt (and never really was) DF-content, mechanics are often to complexe to just pick them up, if the group (or depending on the content even just one person) doesnt know what they're doing, its a wipe. Its static-group-content and if a new person wants to run it, their best bet is to look for like minded people anyways. From my experience enough vets are willing to help a friend (or a friend of a friend) to do content they wouldnt have done otherwise.

Making Coil/EX-primals attractive again by adding rewards will be a very shortterm-solution thats even unlikely to benefit to much new people. We really need to give up on the thought that queueing for Coil/EX-primals is (or ever was) a real option - the way to clear this content has always been forming groups yourself and thats still working, as far as I can tell. People in this game can be helpful, but just as usual: they're more likely to help a friend than a stranger...

Story-relevant content is a bit different though - it would be nice to get rewards and reasons to run old dungeons again outside of the roulettes, but as I already said: this constant getting-dragged-back-into-them is starting to get really tiresome. I farmed The Aery for the Niddhog-card (that was before his trial was released) and I never want to back in there to farm that dungeon for anything again. Whatever the reward could be... it has to be carefully balanced.
My personal suggestions would be an achievment tied to how many new people you've run through content with (as in: you get into a dungeon and two people are new. At the end of the dungeon you'll recieve two points towards that achievment; can be several tiers - 10, 50, 100, 500, 1.000, 3.000,... - with minions, titles and mounts) or an achievment thats a modified version of our instance-counter, with counting the dungeons you've run on a certain level (level 16-49; level 50; 51-59; 60; trials; raids...) and again, minions, titles, mounts, gear, whatever (only sychned dungeons would count, obviously). Just something extra that makes it worthwhile to run old dungeons again without adding stuff to one specific dungeon that gets farmed over and over again (seriously, that was/is the worst part on the relic: Being told to run excatly this dungeon, and in case of the old ARR-one being able to be stuck with running AV for a week). That way people could just chose what dungeon they're willing to do again.
I just really dont want to be dragged back into specific instances again... I'm so, so done with most of them...

[Ghastly]

Vidu, Belhi

Outside of strong statics I'm not sure I would ever call minimum ilevel primals "easy" Or even dungeons for that matter. Ravana is easy now because of the high ilevel, bring your party down to minimum ilevel and maybe things turn out differently.
Btw I see a lot of Savage/raiding talk which is fine but where's discussion about dungeons? This would add a fun challenge to dungeons

Suddenly tanks have to learn when/how to use defense skills, healers would need to become good, and dps would need to dps better. It would add an extra challenge/life to some/a lot of duties.

I think people forget how much lowering ilevel to the bare minimum is like....

[bswpayton]

Vidu, Belhi

Outside of strong statics I'm not sure I would ever call minimum ilevel primals "easy" Or even dungeons for that matter. Ravana is easy now because of the high ilevel, bring your party down to minimum ilevel and maybe things turn out differently.
Btw I see a lot of Savage/raiding talk which is fine but where's discussion about dungeons? This would add a fun challenge to dungeons

Suddenly tanks have to learn when/how to use defense skills, healers would need to become good, and dps would need to dps better. It would add an extra challenge/life to some/a lot of

not really tho maybe on a tank but I literally wore ironwork right side pieces all the way up to gubal library and the vault and did fine. The only thing that min ilvl effects in a dungeon is if your a tank I wouldnt recommend pulling every add you can. But min ilvl in dungeons is really nothing to major, because dungeons themselves where never meant to be difficult.

[Vidu]

Vidu, Belhi

Outside of strong statics I'm not sure I would ever call minimum ilevel primals "easy" Or even dungeons for that matter. Ravana is easy now because of the high ilevel, bring your party down to minimum ilevel and maybe things turn out differently.
Btw I see a lot of Savage/raiding talk which is fine but where's discussion about dungeons? This would add a fun challenge to dungeons

The normal dungeons are easy enough, really - wether you're going in with minimum ilvl or not (otherwise all those undergeared people would never be able to get through them).

The point about challenge is: if you want a challenge, just go in there with minimum ilvl or solo and make it a challenge for yourself - do it for yourself, because you want a challenge, not because you want a shiny reward.

[silverlunarfox]

I was only talking about the 8 and 24-man content. You know, the content that people are babies about not being perfect on. That's where the vast majority of "Abandon"'s come from, and it's because people don't actually want to teach/learn it, they just want to zerg rush it with PUG's

enforcing draconian penalities on legitimate and non legitimate (since how can you really tell for sure) abandons and kicks however will make no one want to play. The penalties established are fine. I was in a DS run yesterday that definitely needed an abandon to reform the group since waiting for DPS who dropped (2 wipe droppers) was taking too long.

The normal dungeons are easy enough, really - wether you're going in with minimum ilvl or not (otherwise all those undergeared people would never be able to get through them).

The point about challenge is: if you want a challenge, just go in there with minimum ilvl or solo and make it a challenge for yourself - do it for yourself, because you want a challenge, not because you want a shiny reward.

Our FC has done naked dungeons to make the low level dungeons more fun XP

[Gumbercules]

Since im of the camp that things "ilvl the frack outta everything" I agree with you, but I can also see why it wouldn't fly. (still think ilvl past the minimum resulting in diminishing returns would still be a decent compromise though) That being said though this change does need to come with time to reward changes, for example getting AV min lvl and item capped would need to give me like expert roulette levels of tomes lol.

[Trishin]

Put additional stats from 1.0 on armor and tons of people will farm those places. Can add additional unique items also to motivate people and give a reason for old content.