logical approach to DPS meter ingame

[Misutoraru]

And I agree with both of you, why invite more poison into the game?

at least now the communities are still quite "pure"
i hope Dev stand strong on this issue
I have seen far too many good game got ruin because the communities miss use such tool
no on can be sure will this communities did the same if the tool is officially introduce
but I am all better safe than sorry

[RichardButte]

I still disagree. The LAST thing this game needs is anyway to increase elitism. A personal DPS meter quickly becomes a "Hey look at my DPS in the last fight" deal.

People can already do this with the 3rd party DPS meters anyway.

Making it personal only would at least allow us to know how well/poorly we're doing so we can adjust.

[Misutoraru]

People can already do this with the 3rd party DPS meters anyway.

Making it personal only would at least allow us to know how well/poorly we're doing so we can adjust.

people can already do this, but DEV are pretending they do not know anyone using it, and suppose no one should be talking about using it in public

making it personal will have prevent what SE trying to safe guard from

if knowing how well/poorly of their own playing, a change to stone, sea, sky (involved boss mechanics) should be enough, as least extreme and savage are the

only place that truly require such indication

[Shurrikhan]

people can already do this, but DEV are pretending they do not know anyone using it, and suppose no one should be talking about using it in public

making it personal will have prevent what SE trying to safe guard from

if knowing how well/poorly of their own playing, a change to stone, sea, sky (involved boss mechanics) should be enough, as least extreme and savage are the

only place that truly require such indication

If anything a place without mechanics is the one that least requires performance metrics beyond the remaining timer at clear or HP percentile at failure.

Moreover, even if that were the only place technically "necessary", does the really make access elsewhere any less valuable? It's still a good thing. It is still highly useful information for self-improvement. And the more information the better. An single parse does little compared to checking different parses under different rotational strategies, remembering their differing contexts. Multiple overall parses still do little compared to something like fflogs, which shows the entirety of its dynamics in the context of the events of the fight, and allows you to compare, side-by-side, different strategies and contexts. But anything, even something as simple as a personal average dps over a fight, is still an improvement over nothing.

What is with the shaming of objective proof? With analysis? Why does gaming become so zealously anti-scientific? When has information itself, let alone making it a common resource, become somehow wrongful?

[Canadane]

A personal DPS meter quickly becomes a "Hey look at my DPS in the last fight" deal.

Why wouldn't you want to see that and strive to improve, though?

[Shurrikhan]

I still disagree. The LAST thing this game needs is anyway to increase elitism. A personal DPS meter quickly becomes a "Hey look at my DPS in the last fight" deal.

People keep putting these things together, like "Hey, I did gud! : o" = elitism.

I've yet to see that even once.

I've seen friendly competition. I've seen joking self-deprecation. I've seen "I really need to position better before -----."

Never once seen elitism out of it. Even in WoW, Rift, Tera, etc., with longtime sanctioned parsing and on as often or tightly DPS-checked raids, numbers come up only after qualitative measurements like "adds aren't dying fast enough." And guess what, we're perfectly fine with kicking people based on their gear or enmity even without actual data to tell us that someone's underperforming. So unless making that process fairer, or providing more in-depth, rather than guess-work, data around which to improve against mechanical checks is "toxic"... I'm not seeing the threat here.

[AphraelAmarantha]

People keep putting these things together, like "Hey, I did gud! : o" = elitism.

I've yet to see that even once.

I've seen friendly competition. I've seen joking self-deprecation. I've seen "I really need to position better before -----."

Never once seen elitism out of it. Even in WoW, Rift, Tera, etc., with longtime sanctioned parsing and on as often or tightly DPS-checked raids, numbers come up only after qualitative measurements like "adds aren't dying fast enough." And guess what, we're perfectly fine with kicking people based on their gear or enmity even without actual data to tell us that someone's underperforming. So unless making that process fairer, or providing more in-depth, rather than guess-work, data around which to improve against mechanical checks is "toxic"... I'm not seeing the threat here.

Your anecdotal evidence is not the same as someone else's. Just because you haven't seen it doesn't mean it doesn't happen and doesn't make that person's experience or opinion invalid.

And just so you know, yes I have seen that and more and I've played my fair share of MMOs. HyperSMB's concern is valid.

[Dualgunner]

Your anecdotal evidence is not the same as someone else's. Just because you haven't seen it doesn't mean it doesn't happen and doesn't make that person's experience or opinion invalid.

And just so you know, yes I have seen that and more and I've played my fair share of MMOs. HyperSMB's concern is valid.

So...you're saying her anecdotal evidence doesn't invalidate somebody else's opinion, fair enough. Then turn around and say that your anecdotal evidence is enough to validate their opinion?

No. Anecdote can neither validate nor invalidate a concern.

[Erys]

I think a good approach to a dps meter would be a grading system, like Devil May Cry's Style Meter.
The more PPS you do the more it fills, the more it fills the higher the grade. You set up 1 meter per dungeon pull and boss. Why PPS? Because that way overgearing doesn't give you more rewards, you have to achieve the Potency per second dished, not the damage.
Like dungeons are right now, we have: 2 massive pulls, 1 boss, 2 massive pulls, 1 boss, 2 massive pulls and 1 boss. With some variations with smaller pulls before certain bosses but you get the idea. We would get 1 grading per massive pull and 1 grading per boss, ending the dungeon with 6 pull Ranks and 3 boss ranks. At the end we would get an average and that's our final Rank.

Make it an overlay like the Job Gauges so you can't copypaste your "dps" in the chat and there should be no harassment. Give extra tomestones and System Based Commendations as rewards based on on Rank Achieved; B rank gives you 10 extra tomes and a Silver Commendation, A gives you 25 extra tomes and a Gold Commendation, and S gives you 50 extra tomes and a Platinum Commendation.
Why tomestones? Rewarding efficient play with less grind. Why system commendations? Because most players if a dungeons goes quick will commend the "aoe dps class", meaning that maybe there was a melee that was destroying a smn in aoe situations and they go uncommended because the party assumed the smn was the one doing the awesome aoe damage. Or just tanks and healers, because they are the "most valuable" party members.

For extra flair you can have each Job Teacher or relevant character commend you via linkshell call after a pull is done. Say you are running dragoon and you hit a "bad" rank (C or less), Alberic would chime in to support you and cheer you to do better; something like "Come on [Character Name], I know you can do better, you are the Azure Dragoon after all!!". If you reach one of the rank with rewards, Estinien would condescendingly praise you, like he always does xP

Put a mount or something with the new commendation system and there's your incentive for people to get better. This way you've got a personal "DPS" meter, a Ranking towards other players that doesn't depend on other players commending you and extra rewards for doing good, both in the form of a mount/glam and extra tomestones per dungeon run.

[Zojha]

For extra flair you can have each Job Teacher or relevant character commend you via linkshell call after a pull is done. Say you are running dragoon and you hit a "bad" rank (C or less), Alberic would chime in to support you and cheer you to do better; something like "Come on [Character Name], I know you can do better, you are the Azure Dragoon after all!!". If you reach one of the rank with rewards, Estinien would condescendingly praise you, like he always does xP

Heh. I did like "that" part of Hullbreaker (Hard) - If you were fast, the dialogue at the second boss was different :3