Still a Bit Confused

[BlaiseLallaise]

After mulling it over for a good while, I'm starting to see the picture. I have no choice but to trust that the system works when used properly until I have a chance to try it out.

That sorta sends me off to another topic. Does it not seem like the new system is forcing a certain battle tactic, while punishing anything else? Meaning, it seems like I'm being faced with a decision to either always utilize self combos or become effectively worthless in battle. Hopefully those non TP-based abilities will flavor it up enough to keep combat from feeling so one-dimensional.

[Gidonoidon_Sur]

I had a thread about this earlier called "Combos: Theory vs. Reality" in which we discussed similar issues. Overall, I am concerned. This is why. Think about a recent party you had. How long did the monsters last? 10-12 seconds? Generally, not very long. To me, this suggests combos aren't necessarily designed for exp parties (particularly 8-person parties), rather NMs/solo where the mob lasts longer. However, TP gain will still be lowered, regardless if you use combos or not. IMO, I believe this will result in generally slower grinding.

Thoughts?

[Orophin]

That sorta sends me off to another topic. Does it not seem like the new system is forcing a certain battle tactic, while punishing anything else? Meaning, it seems like I'm being faced with a decision to either always utilize self combos or become effectively worthless in battle. Hopefully those non TP-based abilities will flavor it up enough to keep combat from feeling so one-dimensional.

That seems to be the case, because it doesn't make sense to use a 3000 TP ability on its own when you can use a 1500 TP ability in a shorter amount of time AND get a bonus out of it if you perform the requirements for it.

Now the thing I'm curious about is casters. Do their chained spells consume MP?

3. Sequence: Landing the specified weaponskill or spell on the enemy immediately beforehand.

Not only will a successful combo grant you the bonus indicated; TP cost will also be waived for the weaponskill used to execute it. For a combo to be valid, however, the weaponskill in question must be used with the class or job to which it belongs.

Their wording only seems to focus on weapon skills, so it's a bit hazy about spell chains.

I don't know if it'd be imbalanced or not if the chained spells didn't consume MP. The spell used to initiate the chain is going to be scaled for higher MP costs the higher you are in level. From a THM's perspective, Thundara is a 30s recast, Thundaga is a 45s recast. Fira is a 16s recast, Firaga is a 7s recast (typo???). So at the very least, there's going to be some down time between using chains, and the tier one nukes have to fill that void. I speculate that nukes are going to cost at least 100 MP per, and as of the current patch I haven't seen many people with mana pools over 1500.

In my eyes, it'd make sense that the chains didn't consume MP since you're going to have to do at least 2-3 filler spells until the chaining abilities come off cooldown.

[Fiosha_Maureiba]

I had a thread about this earlier called "Combos: Theory vs. Reality" in which we discussed similar issues. Overall, I am concerned. This is why. Think about a recent party you had. How long did the monsters last? 10-12 seconds? Generally, not very long. To me, this suggests combos aren't necessarily designed for exp parties (particularly 8-person parties), rather NMs/solo where the mob lasts longer. However, TP gain will still be lowered, regardless if you use combos or not. IMO, I believe this will result in generally slower grinding.

Thoughts?

I think with the reduced TP generation and if I'm interpreting correctly, the removal of our other three TP-generating attacks, battles may be longer than normal. We won't be able to maintain the same high XP chains that we can now, thus reducing XP gain and perhaps evening the pace out.

The AoE capabilities of a mage might be more desired now in such parties, the risk of lower HP and defense to deal out more AoE damage or the added pressure of the tank to secure enmity of all targets.

I think in AoE situations, monsters could go down fast every 20 seconds, with a 60~80 second timeframe during AoE cooldowns. Single target situations, I think we'll be fine in terms of destructive power.

I'm curious to see what happens.

[Deltara]

Combos are all well and good, but I wonder how it will turn out for solo players unable to combo.

I do agree that TP has been pretty meaningless so far and did need some balancing, but we'll see how things go on the solo side of the new system. Hopefully auto-attack TP gain isn't too dismal.

[Masamune1004]

Combos are all well and good, but I wonder how it will turn out for solo players unable to combo.

I do agree that TP has been pretty meaningless so far and did need some balancing, but we'll see how things go on the solo side of the new system. Hopefully auto-attack TP gain isn't too dismal.

Actually, combos were designed for solo play. Monsters die too fast in exp parties for combos to be plausible.

[Raldo]

I think Deltara was referring to those combos that cannot be executed due to impossible positioning requirements while solo. I think every job has a no-positioning-required combo available to them, however.

I'm perfectly fine with combos not being feasible in exp parties. The game should never be balanced to exp party settings. That being said, without the extra TP generating abilities, I think exp monsters will die slower, perhaps allowing for combos.

[Deltara]

Nope, Masamune was right. I've been completely misinterpreting the entire combo system. lol

I was confused by the excessive use of "Weaponskill 1" instead of actual weaponskill names. I assumed that all weaponskills fit into "Category 1" "Category 2" etc categories... and that someone had to follow any Weaponskill 1 with a Weaponskill 2.

But now it seems that is completely not what they were saying. So this doesn't require any teamwork at all then? This is all solo stuff?

[Masamune1004]

Nope, Masamune was right. I've been completely misinterpreting the entire combo system. lol

I was confused by the excessive use of "Weaponskill 1" instead of actual weaponskill names. I assumed that all weaponskills fit into "Category 1" "Category 2" etc categories... and that someone had to follow any Weaponskill 1 with a Weaponskill 2.

But now it seems that is completely not what they were saying. So this doesn't require any teamwork at all then? This is all solo stuff?

Yep, in fact you can't do combos with other people, even if you are the same class.

[Deltara]

Wow, that is disappointing. Maybe they will add team combos later... maybe only jobs will get team combo weaponskills or something.

Wow... just... wow.