Can we get some sort of content gate for level 70 content?

[Waliel]

I remember when wow did something like this.

<snip>

They were actually easier than i'm making them sound at the silver level of difficulty. At gold, things get more hectic all over the place, but silver is just a very average difficulty (bronze just makes sure that you are classified as a living organism)

Difficulty was the problem. Silver was so easy you could beat it pretty much knowing nothing, because the game was generous enough to always tell you what to do and dropped damage buffs that made all the dps checks moot. It was literally "stand still, read what you need to do, kill this big guy at the end with 100% damage buff". Now that I think about it, I think it was fully voiced, so you didn't even have to read. The implementation was pretty bad for the intended purpose.

Silver was maybe a little bit harder than FFXIV solo trials. It didn't gate anyone and the WoW equivalent of ice mages were able to clear it. Gold DPS wasn't too hard either. I beat it on the second try as a class I had never played before and used the free lvl 90 skip thingy. Bronze was basically hall of the novice. There would need to be a some degree of challenge for gating EX stuff and I doubt we'll ever see one for story mode, because, well, story.

[DamianFatale]

We have a system that teaches you basics. It's called "The Hall of Novice". We should just make it required. It's honestly not that hard.

[Core1019]

snip

I think the solution to this is for them to try making dungeons more engaging, offering some actual challenge and more inspired designs than linear corridor with 3 pulls before a gate x5.

[Deithwen]

Maybe it has been said before, but content gating isn't new in the game. We had to complete most GuildHest back in 2.1, in order to unlock Cristal Tower. I think this was a good step in the right direction, but more things need to be mandatory, such as SSS for extrem primals and savage, and at the very least, novice hall (not sure about the name) before unlocking dungeons.

[Dzian]

DF is for random chaos and wipes....but they pay you in tomes and stuff. If you can't stand healers who blow all their MP on AoEs or tanks who can't keep aggro, or DPS who forget not to stand in the fire, then don't roulette.

This mentality is why the "no bonus" culture exists that people always moan about..

When you have that kind of mentality towards duty finder stuff, Is it really any wonder no one wants you in there party finder group's and everything you see is "NO BONUS!"?? (not you personally but players with that mentality in general).

The duty finder should be for getting things done on all levels like it is on the jp side.

I don't think people here are really asking for DF roulette gates, but gates on stuff like raids, EX trials, and the like, Mid to Hardcore content. At the very least, by requiring people to clear something like the Stone Sky Sea for a fight before they can join party finder groups for it would make it so that you would at least get someone who knows their job's basic rotation.

Ideally what they should do is make the normal / hard modes actually challenging and in line with the extremes / savages. That should be the gate.

A player who clears Zurvan hard for example should have learnt enough from clearing hard that he at least understands the basic mechanics in extreme. So a player that unlocked extreme would then at least know how to handle soar or southern cross for example because he learnt them in hard. If that was the case you'd probably find more players willing to take bonus because simply having the ex /savage fight unlocked would indicate you have a pretty good understanding of the mechanics of the encounter and what you need to do to clear it.

[bswpayton]

This mentality is why the "no bonus" culture exists that people always moan about..

when you have that kind of mentality towards duty finder stuff though is it really any wonder no one wants you in there party finder group's and everything you see is "NO BONUS!" (not you

Df should also be for learning or a chance to do said content, I joined game late and the only way I was gona get any sync clears on arr primals would be in df. And it was some wipes , and fails, but I expected that but I kept at it until I got a clear. Df to me is a pratice ground for older content, otherwise, you will never get a real or somewhat real experience if you only got to do it unsync. No bonus exist because players want perfection in their runs , its as simple as that, note some of the content really doesnt require no bonus but some of it does Ive just come to accept it these days even tho I dont care for the whole no bonus thing.

[TaleraRistain]

Don't pug something expecting perfection and you won't have any issues. If you want to control all variables, make a group. You can even put notes in a PF on what you're looking for and would be within your right to remove players who didn't follow those rules.

I have see it suggested to have EX primals and Savage stay available in RF. So long as they also were eventually added to DF as well to give a choice, I can't see a problem with that.

The problem with using SSS is what do you do about healers? Okay, you can test our dps capability, but there's no metric on how effectively we heal. And SSS does nothing for ability to handle mechanics. So dps isn't everything in those fights and SSS would not be a really good gauge since it can't factor in all the measurements.

[Dzian]

The problem with using SSS is what do you do about healers? Okay, you can test our dps capability, but there's no metric on how effectively we heal. And SSS does nothing for ability to handle mechanics. So dps isn't everything in those fights and SSS would not be a really good gauge since it can't factor in all the measurements.

It's not perfect but SSS is a good for measure and will tell you much more about your dps potential than a parser ever will.

The problem with parsers is the sheer number of variables involved that people generally don't know how to interpret.
You might for example find yourself coming out of a fight 500 dps lower than you were yesterday in the same fight but it's highly possible you actually played better. however had no padding from party buffs. No trick attacks, no cards. No crit buffs, foe reqs, etc etc

Or the reverse. Maybe you came out 500 dps higher than yesterday it's possible you actually played a lot worse just got more padded numbers from the rest of your partys buffs. foe was up all the time trick attack always going up, lucky asyt cards Its not an accurate measure at all.

This is why even personal parsers that people suggest in the various parser threads wouldn't work. "Hey just let it tell me my own dps at the end of content so I can see if I'm playing better"
It wouldn't actually tell you anything. Lets say for example you finished zurvan with 1800 dps on your monk. Is that good, bad or what? No one can say without knowing the rest of the parties make up. How often buffs and things were up or even how long the fight dragged on for and so much more. Just the arbitrary 1800 number that tells me absolutely nothing about my performance.

SSS however is consistent. If you smash that dummy 20 seconds faster than you did yesterday in the same gear. you know your playing better because it's the only variable in the equation that can be changed...

[bswpayton]

It's not perfect but SSS is a good for measure and will tell you much more about

.

Are you really suggesting that sss is better than an act parser sounds crazy to me a rotation on a dummy without any mechanics is in no way shape or form better than a parse of an actual fight. Mechanics is what actually kill people at the end of the day , dps is important but many people cant do certain fights simply due to not being able to handle the mechanics. So even with padding if you have good dps on a parse, its alot better than hitting something that doesnt move. For instance on a tank you can do a whole sss in dps stance , maybe you cant do that in a real fight, maybe you cant hit ever positional perfect on monk in a real fight , sss is pure trash. Until it is simulated like an actual savage or extreme encounter with mechanics with it , its no better than the level 50 training dummy I have sitting in front of my yard.