Launch Trailer Hype Thread

[Enkidoh]

In keeping with the current speculation and debate on just how strong Zenos is and how and why we're apparently so easily routed by him in the trailer, I just noticed an important detail I have not yet seen mentioned that hints at how the expansion's storyline is going to be executed. Everyone seems to assume that the Resistance launches an attack on Ala Mhigo which they claim victory for, only for Zenos and Fordola to launch a feint and rout them, forcing the player to Doma to get added support.

Now, what I noticed in the trailer is right at the very end, where is shows Zenos about to strike down Derplander in the rain (the scene where Urianger? recites the most recent New Year's poem), behind Zenos can be seen not what would be assumed to be Ala Mhigan structures as seen at Rhalgr's Reach.... but that weird magitek gate that protects Doma Castle.

Therefore, what if the story gives the player a choice of which path to take, which ultimately lead to the same conclusion? What if, early on in the expansion, the player is asked to either proceed to Rhalgr's Reach and assist the Resistance in retaking Ala Mhigo, or head eastwards across the ocean to Othard with Goesetsu and Yugiri? And that at some point during both scenarios, the insurrection against the Garleans fails horribly when Zenos shows up and makes sport of the player (for whatever reason), and then they proceed to the 'other' region to regroup and gain support?

It seems to definitely make the "Two paths, two swords" line in Revolutions ring true, as well as support a comment I understand that Yoshi made a while ago about Stormblood's storyline that "the player has a choice between two scenarios early on and which path they take is up to them".

Either way, we'll find out in a few days if I'm right or horribly off the mark.

As for Zenos's strength, I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt and think that we just severely underestimated him, given the previous legatee we've rumbled with have been.. well.. already humbled before we fought them. Gaius was somewhat of a combat pragmatist who tended to actually prefer not to fight himself if he could help it - he only fought us in the Praetorium because we had disposed of everything else he threw at us!; Nael Ulua was already unhinged before the final battle of 1.0, and her rematch in the Second Coil was just a mere fragment of memory wearing her face; and Regula... kept running away every time we challenged him!

Zenos is clearly different to those earlier three, as he is an unknown quantity, underestimating him is probably what leads to our defeat in that scene, which also explains how Yugiri's Doman Insurrection was put down if he was that powerful (and why he was tasked with filling Gaius's vacant position as Viceroy of Ala Mhigo - what better way to finally bring those troublesome Eorzeans finally to heel?).

EDIT: And silly me just realized I made a blunder with the Revolutions line - it's not "Two paths" but "Two lives" But I guess metaphorically you can take that to mean the same thing.

[Alleo]

Well, let's also not forget that canonically, Regula took on four adventurers himself, including the WoL. There is some precedent for a Garlean Legatus giving us trouble when fought head-on.

No canoncially we did everything on Azys Lla alone. So we took down Regula, two ascians plus their combined form and Thordan and his knights alone. (We were only traveling to the flying isle with our scion buddies and they split away from us before the dungeon. We simply cant have other people with us at that time since we are the first to arrive there thus nobody could even just teleport to us. And the lore book confirms it too.) Regula is later than also killed by Zurvan while we kill Zurvan too.

i honestly wouldn't mind if he really were that much stronger. It's only the second expansion. It's a bit early to be demigods. Who will be a credible threat in 9.0?

But really we have no idea how he beats us. Even the "I'm gonna let you live cause you are not strong enough" part is just speculation. And I sure hope it will end up being wrong.

Thats exactly the problem I have. SE already introduced so many godlike impossible looking enemies which we defeated (heck even if we had adventurers on our side in the new 24 man raid..defeating this version of Diabolos is one hell of a feat [I learned ]) so I just cant believe that there will be suddenly even stronger opponents especially if they are still mortal. I mean Thordan was the strongest primal till now and was fueled by the eyes (+Lahabrea), lots of prayers and even the Warring Triad and we defeated him alone. What kind of being will there be at 5.0? I wished that they had started the first expansion a bit slower. Instead of having such enemies they could have gone more about man versus dragon. Let us be saved by Hydaelyn against the Ascians instead of killing them off so easily. Let us defeat Nidhogg but only with the help of lots of people and dragons.

With that solution I would have understood that we are powerful but just still a normal mortal. Then with 4.x they could have given us enemies like Zenos that thrashes us. Overcoming him seems way more natural that way. Then with 5.0 we might destroy the first few Ascians on our own and maybe have some enemies like Diablos. And later we could have enemies like Thordan. This would have made the whole journey more realistically and still way more enjoyable and logical to me. Because you are 100% right, who are we going to defeat later? What power do they have to own to even make sense that we will not just mop the ground with them? Because right now after everything that we killed it just doesnt make sense that there is a mortal single person alive that will trash us. (Because this does not look like a stalemate)

Short version: They have made us too powerful too fast in the recent expansion thus any future expansion needs quite the enemies or strange reasons for us to loose against mortal people.

[Still good to read that there are others that find this point a little strange]

Now, what I noticed in the trailer is right at the very end, where is shows Zenos about to strike down Derplander in the rain (the scene where Urianger? recites the most recent New Year's poem), behind Zenos can be seen not what would be assumed to be Ala Mhigan structures as seen at Rhalgr's Reach.... but that weird magitek gate that protects Doma Castle.

Therefore, what if the story gives the player a choice of which path to take, which ultimately lead to the same conclusion? What if, early on in the expansion, the player is asked to either proceed to Rhalgr's Reach and assist the Resistance in retaking Ala Mhigo, or head eastwards across the ocean to Othard with Goesetsu and Yugiri? And that at some point during both scenarios, the insurrection against the Garleans fails horribly when Zenos shows up and makes sport of the player (for whatever reason), and then they proceed to the 'other' region to regroup and gain support?

I would find it nice to have a choice but I cant truly believe that we can either choose one or the other. From the view of the WoL why would we travel for months on a ship to go to Doma first when Ala Mhigo is right there in Eorzea? Also Eorzea is going to war with them so going to Doma first would mean that we leave them all behind from the very beginning. Also how would they do the story dungeons? I mean which level would it be, since it would be different depending on where you went first. Also why would Lyse go with us to Doma if she wants to free Ala Mhigo? No I think in the end this is one straight story line again. (I hope that this wont mean that we loose to Zenos twice >_>)

[Theodric]

The Warrior of Light and Scions being unable to charge in and easily defeat their latest key opponent is one of the best things that can happen with the game's story. A bitter struggle is much more engaging than seeing yet another key antagonist being overwhelmed the moment that they cross blades with the Warrior of Light and his allies. The ridiculous amount of plot armour surrounding the protagonists will - hopefully - also be reduced during 4.0 so that the antagonists can be allowed to be a legitimate threat.

It's a disgrace that characters such as Regula, Gaius and Lahabrea are built up to be very strong combatants with intriguing backstories only to be swatted away like flies to appease those who seem to only be concerned with their version of the Warrior of Light immediately defeating or routing everything that bars their past. I mean, some of the same people who were stating that they wanted more nuanced antagonists are now complaining because the likes of Zenos, Fordola and Yotsuyu are implied to stick around beyond their initial appearance and prove to be legitimate threats for once.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

At no point has it been implied that liberating Ala Mhigo or Doma would be 'easy'. Furthermore, the single player Final Fantasy games have almost always had fearsome opponents that can easily match or even surpass the protagonists in terms of power or skill. Sometimes they are beaten back after a bitter struggle, or some form of weakness is exploited such as arrogance or a special relic. Other times there's a deal struck - such as an opponent having a change of heart or deciding to work alongside the protagonists for the sake of the greater good. Heck, sometimes a somewhat harmless threat is underestimated and manages to cause a lot of trouble as a result. No matter which route we see the story go down I have a good feeling that it'll be both interesting and satisfying.

[LineageRazor]

No canoncially we did everything on Azys Lla alone. So we took down Regula, two ascians plus their combined form and Thordan and his knights alone. (We were only traveling to the flying isle with our scion buddies and they split away from us before the dungeon. We simply cant have other people with us at that time since we are the first to arrive there thus nobody could even just teleport to us. And the lore book confirms it too.) Regula is later than also killed by Zurvan while we kill Zurvan too.

Even assuming that we DID do all that without assistance from other champions - what makes you so certain that Zenos wouldn't be capable of the same? It's entirely possible that, had it been him in the Singularity Reactor instead of us (and assuming he had protection from tempering) he could well have laid Thordan low with a single blow rather than the drawn-out fight we had to go through.

Additionally, just because he's Regula's peer is not reason enough to assume that the two are equal in power. Even if they were, well, we don't actually know what Regula's power was like. Never have we fought the guy to the death - he always tactically retreated. Additionally, the only reason he died to Zurvan is that he took a blow for one of his allies that he never would have taken otherwise. Essentially, we don't KNOW what Regula's potential was, because we've never had a chance to see it.

While there ARE some pretty tired tropes being handed around here, SE still has lots of room to provide us with challenges in the future, both human and otherwise. It's still too soon to say, "One on one, we should be able to beat anyone, anytime!"

[Mysteltain]

Well, as I continue through the story on my alt, I am further reminded of why I really dislike discussions of what is canon or not. Do we take the in-game text as gospel, or supplementary material? Did we defeat the Warring Triad alone, or did we heed our allies advice and "gather trusted companions/champions/allies" to us in aid of our cause? Is the text in the duty finder the truth? I find it hard to beieve after 60 levels that the game needs to remind us to use it. And, please correct me in I'm wrong, but didn't Koji mention once how the lore book is written from the perspective of an Eorzean scholar/historian, and as such they only know somewhat more than the average person? Plus, historians have been known to make certain "embellishments" in their documentations (looking at you, Ancient Greece). So, for all we know this scholar is just assuming that we did this on our own to further our legend.

I understand that a lot of what I'm doing is nitpicking (and I do love playing Devil's Advocate), but at the same time I fully agree that, should we treat the lore book as canon, then how the hell can we be beaten by anything less than overwhelming numbers or some other form of unfair odds or handicap? But if we treat in-game lore as canon, well, we're inconsistently powerful (but never on the level of a demi-god without assistance from the Mother Crystal) with allies who seem to be conveniently absent when we're in danger after any given fight (such as Bismark). Obviously those inconsistancies can be swept away with head-canon or assumptions, but do we really want to go down that route?

[Theodric]

A lot of stuff is simply a case of:

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/RuleOfCool

and

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.ph...orySegregation

With that said, one of the biggest and most common story critiques of 2.0 and 3.0 was how little screen-time and development certain antagonists received. Often they'd show up, quest text would describe them as a 'formidable threat' and then the Warrior of Light would immediately destroy them.

4.0, thankfully, appears to be putting a greater emphasis upon the expansion's antagonists and giving them some much needed love. I think it's going to be pretty great and shake things up whilst also laying the groundwork for 5.0 and 6.0.

A story where the antagonists aren't a threat just isn't interesting. One of the best things that could be done at this point in time for the sake of a compelling story is not allowing the Warrior of Light to simply waltz in and solve every problem because 'he's teh best fiter ever lolz xD'. In fact, to mitigate that I believe we're going to see a lot more intrigue where the story is concerned. 3.0 certainly had a lot of twists that made things much more difficult to solve through brute force alone.

[Okamimaru]

It's not our strength that let's us defeat enemies but our skill level... I mean yeah we beat Zurvan but if he hit you it was still a huge problem... the ability to dodge his attacks is what let us win.... and if we are supposed to be alone in these battles then we are apparently face tanking every boss and still able to heal ourselves and work complex mechanics.... this is the single biggest issue I have with the single WOL theory... nevermind we are asked to completely ignore the fact we can SEE and work with 3-7 other people during those fights...

[EdwinLi]

Honestly at this point I feel like our character is just living the "life" of the Warrior of Light through their own Echo similar to how in 1.0 the Player character was in the past experiencing past events from the perspective of another person due to the Echo.

It would make more sense if "party members" are canon that they are other Echo users viewing events of the WoL's life with the Player's character.

It would also explain why the WoL's life been so linear in story since through the Echo we are only experiencing the past in the WoL's place.

[Lauront]

It's not our strength that let's us defeat enemies but our skill level... I mean yeah we beat Zurvan but if he hit you it was still a huge problem... the ability to dodge his attacks is what let us win.... and if we are supposed to be alone in these battles then we are apparently face tanking every boss and still able to heal ourselves and work complex mechanics.... this is the single biggest issue I have with the single WOL theory... nevermind we are asked to completely ignore the fact we can SEE and work with 3-7 other people during those fights...

It is pretty much nothing but the Echo. I don't see how skill level comes into it, except insofar as it is (significantly) amplified via the Echo. At any rate, your character is not alone in possessing it. I do hope that they are going to start scaling back on this and make the WOL suffer some hard falls, not like the ones in HW where you simply regained Hydaelyn's blessing gradually, to the point that by the point you faced the Ascian Prime/Thordan, it was nearly all back.

I am quite happy seeing Zenos give the WOL a difficult time and hope it is the least of the WOL's worries to come. In the future, I certainly would like to see Elidibus as a little more than a trial throwaway boss, if he is to be one.

[Okamimaru]

It is pretty much nothing but the Echo. I don't see how skill level comes into it, except insofar as it is (significantly) amplified via the Echo. At any rate, your character is not alone in possessing it. .

Echo isn't some sort of power boost (except non-canonically when we wipe in a trial)... all it does is protect us from tempering and let's us see through to the souls truth... Echo or no echo, if you don't dodge enemy skills they still hurt/kill... even if it was echo that still doesn't explain one person able to be healer tank and dps at the same time vs thordan and his knights... I'd say the WoL is just one of a group of WoL like the WoD came as a group (and the WoL are a group in the ARR opening movie)... we are the representative for the group...