Yoshi P to Mr.Happy "Heal DPS is not mandatory and no expectation for Healer to DPS!"

[Bourne_Endeavor]

So are we going to start calling Red mages who don't heal lazy? Since its part of their toolkit and they can do 10k+ heals in a few seconds. Otherwise i think this would be a bit hypocritical.

Only in the same context you would call a Summoner lazy for not using Raise. It's situational. If one of the healers goes down and the other is struggling to keep up, yes, the Red Mage should switch to a supporting role temporarily.

[Erys]

Snip

Poor mana battery>>>>>no mana battery

[Greedalox]

They can't AoE heal. Yoshi-P said they had a test run of it, and while the RDM could heal, the fight didnt go anywhere since they couldnt dps very much :P But hey, its part of the toolkit, better see RDMs healing or we need rage threads on the forums.

You're aware of the argument right? No?

Efficiency. Will it be efficient for a RDM to be using GCD's on heals instead of the healers HoT? Probably not, so it won't be used in that way. Did the Healer die and the tank needs a little love while getting rezzed? Sure, help the tank survive and push out that victory!

You're trying to make an argument out of something nobody is claiming. When people say that healers have DPS tools in their kit, it's because it's efficient to use them.

[SaitoHikari]

-snip-

Yeah, I agree with everything here. I just swiftcast Stoneskin II out of habit more than anything else, even though I'm already aware that it's FAR more efficient to Swiftcast Aero III and then Assize afterwards as part of my boss opener. Not entirely sure about using it in mob pulls though, since some enemies may still be catching up to the tank at that point and have hitboxes large enough/are far enough away that a Holy going off too soon would mess up the DPS' AoEs or even my own Aero III for the next 5 seconds. I'm fairly self-conscious about that, being a Bard main and all.

I knew about how Medica II should have been enough to heal the BLM to full, though I mainly decided to blow a cure on him at that moment anyway because there's no telling if the boss is going to decide to throw an Excretion on him later. Even though the Excretion would have no chance of killing him anyway, I'd rather not have my teammates panic with me around, ha.

[usalia]

So are we going to start calling Red mages who don't heal lazy? Since its part of their toolkit and they can do 10k+ heals in a few seconds. Otherwise i think this would be a bit hypocritical.

You want them to heal over what the healer did or just take a rdm over the healer?

[Hikuras]

Thanks for the tips Ama. I know it wasn't the best astro example but I just wanted to show you can DPS and heal in content. But I got lots of learning to do so maybe I shouldn't try to explain it to Kasia... >.> Am I making sense?

[Hikuras]

Not sure if you're aware, but your link is broken. Here, I'll go fix it for you.

While we're all critiquing each other's gameplay, I'll go offer up mine as well. Note I rarely play any healer at all anymore (my job gameplay these days is 85% Bard, 10% WHM, 5% everything else), but that's not much of an excuse now, is it? Surely a pretentious asshole like I should be ripped apart and humbled at some point.

https://www.twitch.tv/videos/149226710

(Ignore the second half of the video, that's just me screwing around as a Bard in Dun Scaith.)

I did not know my link was busted. Thank you for that.

[Taika]

I'm disappointed that no one in all these pages has even tried to answer my question:

Why should it matter to anyone's gameplay what Yoshi P says about anything?

If Yoshi P says BRDs shouldn't be expected to sing, or that it's alright for off tanks to stay in tank stance, that does not mean that either of those things should be acceptable behaviour in the game. Whatever Yoshi P says does not have any direct effect to the actual gameplay. But player expectations (and meta) derive from the game's design, and that he in fact would be able to change - if he would wish to do that. But instead, he keeps enforcing design that actively supports healer DPS - more and more the further we move with the game.

People who claim healer's job in this game is only to heal are wrong, that's a baseless argument that can't be justified with how the game actually works. (And this comes from a person who's been a healer main in this game from 1.0 and played through almost all content as a healer.) Or can anyone logically explain why it should be alright for them to only use this one part of their abilities? With anything else than "well they're called healers", because that's not a good argument for anything, it has nothing to do with actual gameplay, and it's also not in line with the expectations of any other role in this game (tanks too are expected to DPS and DD jobs are expected to support).

All jobs in this game are expected to use all of their available abilities in a way that supports their party most efficiently. This means that tanks are expected to go to DPS stance and focus on that when it's safe (at least when there's nothing for them to tank...), Summoners are expected to Raise / Virus / Eye for an Eye, Ninjas are expected to Goad and help with enmity, Bards are expected to sing, and so on. This does not mean everyone is expected to offer their 100% optimal performance on each duty finder run. But people are expected to actively participate and try (at their own level of skill and experience) to support their party with all the tools available to them.

[Hamada]

Thanks for the tips Ama. I know it wasn't the best astro example but I just wanted to show you can DPS and heal in content. But I got lots of learning to do so maybe I shouldn't try to explain it to Kasia... >.> Am I making sense?

I know, and feel free to share what I said to your friend. (I am just here to help others i encourage to tell them) Also I would both take from this why it is helpful to be aware what others do and how well they are doing it since it effects your effort. To get though it the quickest it means fine tuning and adjusting your play styles with them to speed things up a bit. My friend had a brd JUST like that and said "ballad me" (same person where all the healing advice came from) and increased the DPS output so she can make up what the brd wasn't doing.

I'm disappointed that no one in all these pages has even tried to answer my question:

Why should it matter to anyone's gameplay what Yoshi P says about anything?

If Yoshi P says BRDs shouldn't be expected to sing, or that it's alright for off tanks to stay in tank stance, that does not mean that either of those things should be acceptable behaviour in the game. Whatever Yoshi P says does not have any direct affect to the actual gameplay. But player expectations (and meta) derive from the game's design, and that he in fact would be able to change - if he would wish to do that. But instead, he keeps enforcing design that actively supports healer DPS - more and more the further we move with the game.

People who claim healer's job in this game is only to heal are wrong, that's a baseless argument that can't be justified with how the game actually works. (And this comes from a person who's been a healer main in this game from 1.0 and played through almost all content as a healer.) Or can anyone logically explain why it should be alright for them to only use this one part of their abilities? With anything else than "well they're called healers", because that's not a good argument for anything and it's not in line with the expectations of any other role in this game (tanks too are expected to DPS and DD jobs are expected to support).

All jobs in this game are expected to use all of their available abilities in a way that supports their party most efficiently. This means that tanks are expected to go to DPS stance and focus on that when it's safe (at least when there's nothing for them to tank...), Summoners are expected to Raise / Virus / Eye for an Eye, Ninjas are expected to Goad and help with enmity, Bards are expected to sing, and so on. This does not mean everyone is expected to offer their 100% optimal performance on each duty finder run. But people are expected to actively participate and try (at their own level of skill and experience) to support their party with all the tools available to them.

For the first question it shouldn't and I agree with the other 2.

[Hikuras]

Tell your friend stuff.

I told him and he was O.O. Said he'll go train on the advice. Tho he's a monk main as you can tell from his other videos on his channel. I had to push him to go on his astro in the vid I showed earlier. He says healing is scary with everything that goes on. Let me quote him " Yeah much respect goes out to healer mains. Seriously don't know how they do it. Monk is so much easier.. I just punch things. >.> "