Yoshi P to Mr.Happy "Heal DPS is not mandatory and no expectation for Healer to DPS!"

[SaitoHikari]

For me, I don't particularly care if the healer is DPSing or not, but they better be casting SOMETHING every chance they get. Just casting a heal every 5 seconds while jumping all over the damn place waiting for something to happen is quite frankly unacceptable. If I see that, they forfeit any right to complain about the performance of their own fellow party members, for if they aren't legitimately trying their hardest, what right do they have to expect the others to try their hardest for them?

This game rewards being proactive and efficient. I find that with the difficulty of most of the dungeons, I typically use my healing abilities in a way that lets me force open windows to DPS without any risk of anyone in the party dying. Even better if my damaging skills actually STOP enemies from hurting the tank too much, which is why I tend to favor WHM over the other two healers. What's better, letting those two slimes in Sohm Al HM explode and forcing you to cast Medica 1-2 times, making all of your party members panic a bit and costing you roughly ~2k MP to restore everyone's HP, or throwing out a Holy to damage everything AND interrupt their Blaze cast in the first place, which only costs ~1.5k MP with no damage to your party members' HP AND taking off a good chunk of enemy HP?

Sometimes, I wonder if people have forgotten how to be practical in this game. The concept of DPSing is consistently framed as a selfish thing, but I see it as helping other people help you. (Of course, that's also why I tend to main Bard too.)

[Seoulstar]

And of course when even the game director says it's not mandatory, people resort to being childish about the situation instead of just ending it..

[Powercow]

And of course when even the game director says it's not mandatory, people resort to being childish about the situation instead of just ending it..

Yoshida also thought that the 2.0 warrior was fine, effectively telling people to "git gud" despite the fact warrior was measurably worse than paladin. He signed off on bowmages. He agreed to Diadem. The man is not infallible.

[Seoulstar]

Yoshida also thought that the 2.0 warrior was fine, effectively telling people to "git gud" despite the fact warrior was measurably worse than paladin. He signed off on bowmages. He agreed to Diadem. The man is not infallible.

Question is..would you be saying the same thing if Yoshi said it was in fact mandatory for healers to dps?

I wish I knew how to end it. But this is a forum, so people can bellyache all day because something doesn't agree with them.

Also love the RWBY clip.

Sadly that will always be the case, I'm just getting to the point that I'm no longer caring about the topic. Also, thank you ♥

[Powercow]

Question is..would you be saying the same thing if Yoshi said it was in fact mandatory for healers to dps?

Given his track record of other things, like those I listed, yeah I would say the man is still a mortal being capable of making mistakes.

[Seoulstar]

Given his track record of other things, like those I listed, yeah I would say the man is still a mortal being capable of making mistakes.

So he's damned if he do and damned if he don't and this topic will probably go on until the servers shuts down for good..and maybe even after that.

[ShanaShirayuki]

And of course when even the game director says it's not mandatory, people resort to being childish about the situation instead of just ending it..

Yoshida also thought that the 2.0 warrior was fine, effectively telling people to "git gud" despite the fact warrior was measurably worse than paladin. He signed off on bowmages. He agreed to Diadem. The man is not infallible.

/thread
10char

[TorchicEX]

And of course when even the game director says it's not mandatory, people resort to being childish about the situation instead of just ending it..

I wish I knew how to end it. But this is a forum, so people can bellyache all day because something doesn't agree with them.

Also love the RWBY clip.

[Taika]

I only have one question:

Why should it matter to anyone's gameplay what Yoshi P says about anything?

Actually, I also have a second one:

If Yoshi P would say one shouldn't be expected to sing as a Bard, or use ninjutsu as a Ninja, would you support that as well?

Yet again both of these points are mute. A healer heals...a tank tanks and a DPS is to DPS. Anything above that in your opinion, NOTHING ELSE!

So a tank doesn't have to DPS, a BRD doesn't have to sing and a RDM doesn't have to raise and so on?

Nevertheless, it may be better per se, but that doesn't change the fact both are technically acceptable. After all, we are given 90 minutes to complete a dungeon. As long as we finish within that time frame, it's successful as far as the devs are concerned. That's the problem with the bare minimum argument. No one likes when DPS or Tanks utilize half their kits but seem to be okay when healers do it. I, personally, don't expect raiders in my DF. I do expect an equal amount of effort. If you can't be arsed to press a GCD every 2.5 seconds, well, I may not be arsed to carry you through content. Why should I do all the work when you aren't willing to equally contribute?

<3

[TaranTatsuuchi]

Haven't read any of the thread yet, but I will go back and read it.


Lazy player argument.

Every player should try and spend every gcd on a skill useful for the group.


The content design in this game doesn't require healing fulltime, there will be healing downtime.



Keeping your party safe should be a very high priority for a healer.
But, after that there's nothing else to do but spend those gcd's on damage.

If we compare healers and other classes...
A healer who only has to heal every 6~10 seconds and refuses to do damage in the meantime is equivalanet to another class using a skill every 3rd or 4th gcd.

This is not parity.
This is laziness.




A quote on that subject.

Yesterday I did some testing on how it really is like to only heal in expert roulette, which I think is a good example because it's content probably ran by majority of player base this discussion is relevant to.

I queued to expert roulette as WHM and we got Xelpathol. In addition to me, the party consisted of a WAR who had never tanked the dungeon before (no endgame experience as WAR), a BLM (his Savage job, currently on A11S progression), and a DRG (no endgame experience as DRG). So quite a random party composition with people more or less familiar with their roles in that dungeon.

The WAR pulled as much as he could at the time (not knowing the dungeon as tank he failed this a couple of times) and I would only use my healing abilities. This was the result, my every single heal cast for the whole 21 min dungeon run:

- Regen x24
- Medica II x16
- Asylum x7
- Assize x4
- Cure II x5 (between pulls, not during them)
- Tetra x4

So in addition to Medica II, the only thing I actually had to cast in the whole dungeon was Cure II, which I did a total of 5 times (between pulls, not during them). Everything else was instant cast abilities. I also used Eye for an Eye on tank and sometimes Esuna, and I cast stoneskin on everyone between pulls.

Even with this little use of healing, my overheal was 35,9%, so the actual healing requirements for this dungeon are even lower. I was active 17% of the whole dungeon while the rest of my group members were active 72-77% of the dungeon.

This is a perfect example of the low healing requirements in the game and how it causes a huge activity difference between a healer who doesn't DPS and their group members. On that run I did not contribute nearly as much as my group members, in fact I was using /icam and doing /mandervilledance while they were actually making an effort. If it would have been the tank or a DD only being active 17% of the time and dancing and idling for the rest, they would have been removed from the party, but for me, some people would actually argue I was doing just fine.

I took a video of the whole run and uploaded it in case someone's interested. This is the final boss fight, during which the only things I actually cast were 3 Medica IIs. Other than that, I used Regen (4), Assize (2) and Asylum (2). Here's the direct link to the fight: https://youtu.be/jBgMe5uHPsE?t=17m17s

TLDR: Not DPSing as a healer means you're just being carried by your group members for over 80% of the dungeon time.